Let's go Yankees

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

congrats a little bit gales and math. I still think you have poor opinions on baseball though gales. LOL though you were right about Pedro last night.

on to next year. hard enought to win two straight pennants but losing the series its still rough. I really boils down to Hamels blowing a 3 run lead and Lidge not giving us a chance at winning game 4 or this series would have had a whole new look. But those guys were also the two biggest question marks going into it and it turned out they really do SUCK this year.

I'll give the yanks credit too though.. Matsui is Pedro's Daddy for sure.. and Jeter, Damon and A-roid all had terrific WS's along with Rivera.

Just didnt think the Yanks starters did that awesome to shut our bats down so its disappointing we couldnt really score. Howard slumping at the worst time sure didnt help. Its like Utley/Ruiz/Werth are the only guys who showed up.

my opinion on baseball proved correct

i said pitching would determine this series and it did

i thought the yankees had better pitchers and they do



pettite had a chance to implode in game 3 , but, he found a way through early on in the game to give his team a chance , hamels with a 3 run lead imploded - i thought that was the turning point of the seires -you can talk about lidge blowing game 4 all you want but even if you had won that game and went to NY ahead 3-2 who was going to get the ball in game 7 that you had any faith in?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

my opinion on baseball proved correct

i said pitching would determine this series and it did

i thought the yankees had better pitchers and they do



pettite had a chance to implode in game 3 , but, he found a way through early on in the game to give his team a chance , hamels with a 3 run lead imploded - i thought that was the turning point of the seires -you can talk about lidge blowing game 4 all you want but even if you had won that game and went to NY ahead 3-2 who was going to get the ball in game 7 that you had any faith in?

hamels blowing a three run lead was the turning point and lidge's meltdown was the final nail in the coffin. We had no chance winning 3 games in a row when Hamels would have to start game 7.

I really wasnt super impressed by your half billion dollar starting pitchers, though they didnt blow up (except burnett game 5), they were very hittable including CC (except burnett game 2). Howard going cold and swinging at every pitch 10 inches outside the plate slider that was thrown really didnt help.

Rivera was your pitching advantage over Lidge, as well as ANY of your pitchers over Hamels, but that is all IMO.

Starting Happ game 3 instead of Hamels could have been a difference maker.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

hamels blowing a three run lead was the turning point and lidge's meltdown was the final nail in the coffin. We had no chance winning 3 games in a row when Hamels would have to start game 7.

I really wasnt super impressed by your half billion dollar starting pitchers, though they didnt blow up (except burnett game 5), they were very hittable including CC (except burnett game 2). Howard going cold and swinging at every pitch 10 inches outside the plate slider that was thrown really didnt help.

Rivera was your pitching advantage over Lidge, as well as ANY of your pitchers over Hamels, but that is all IMO.

Starting Happ game 3 instead of Hamels could have been a difference maker.

It really came down to Ryan Howard. There is no way possible the Phillies beat the Yankees without major production from him. They didnt get it, in fact they didnt get squat from him. They lose. Its really that simple. Doesnt matter who pitches for the Phillies. Lee could have pitched 3 gems and they would have still lost without Ryan Howard being Ryan Howard.

He didnt need to be as crazy good as he was in against the Dodgers but he needed to produce. He sucked and they lost to a Yankee team who didnt play anywhere close to their true ability.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Gander

It really came down to Ryan Howard. There is no way possible the Phillies beat the Yankees without major production from him. They didnt get it, in fact they didnt get squat from him. They lose. Its really that simple. Doesnt matter who pitches for the Phillies. Lee could have pitched 3 gems and they would have still lost without Ryan Howard being Ryan Howard.

He didnt need to be as crazy good as he was in against the Dodgers but he needed to produce. He sucked and they lost to a Yankee team who didnt play anywhere close to their true ability.

agreed - tex stunk and a-rod was not as good as the 1st 2 rdns

[Gander]

Originally Posted by gales0678

agreed - tex stunk and a-rod was not as good as the 1st 2 rdns

A Rod was fine, Tex did stink, but the Yankees are so much better than the Phillies that theyy can absorb such a loss in production from one of their key players. The Phillies can not. Too much is being made of the Phillies pitching. It was good enough to get this thing to 7 games and a Phillies WS win wasnt out of the question if Ryan Howard hits like he is capable of. I realize he doesnt love hitting off of left handers, but hes in the freaking big leagues, suck it up.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Gander

A Rod was fine, Tex did stink, but the Yankees are so much better than the Phillies that theyy can absorb such a loss in production from one of their key players. The Phillies can not. Too much is being made of the Phillies pitching. It was good enough to get this thing to 7 games and a Phillies WS win wasnt out of the question if Ryan Howard hits like he is capable of. I realize he doesnt love hitting off of left handers, but hes in the freaking big leagues, suck it up.

Yeah....he needs to go to school on lefties........that night life will shorten your carreer

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Gander

A Rod was fine, Tex did stink, but the Yankees are so much better than the Phillies that theyy can absorb such a loss in production from one of their key players. The Phillies can not. Too much is being made of the Phillies pitching. It was good enough to get this thing to 7 games and a Phillies WS win wasnt out of the question if Ryan Howard hits like he is capable of. I realize he doesnt love hitting off of left handers, but hes in the freaking big leagues, suck it up.

Did you watch any of the games?

It was a pretty close series. If Matsui doesnt golf that curveball in game 2 the entire series changes. When Boston swept the Cards a few years ago, that was a team that was clearly better than the other.

And 'suck it up"? Why would a guy be able to do something that he hasnt been capable of doing his whole career? He doesnt hit lefties. He wont ever hit them very well.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did you watch any of the games?

It was a pretty close series. If Matsui doesnt golf that curveball in game 2 the entire series changes. When Boston swept the Cards a few years ago, that was a team that was clearly better than the other.

And 'suck it up"? Why would a guy be able to do something that he hasnt been capable of doing his whole career? He doesnt hit lefties. He wont ever hit them very well.

then why not take him out of the lineup or move him to bat 8th like torre did to a-rod a couple of yrs ago when he couldn't get a hit?

[MaTH716]

Here's my thoughts (for what they are worth).
Obviously Ryan Howard did nothing for the Phillies. But no one is really mentioning the ineffectiveness of Rollins and Victorino to an extent. Utley hit 5 homeruns and 4 of them were solo shots. I really think the ability of Jeter and Damon setting the table versus Rollins and Victorino is a major part that isn't being mentioned. I just feel that Jimmy Rollins is the straw that stirs the Phillies drink. When he's on base he causes chaos, not to mention as the series went on he just seemed to lose that swagger that he has.
As far as pitching goes, Mariano is the best ever at the position. Every other closer in the playoffs had some sort of meltdown, except Mariano. With Mr. Automatic there, you are basically only trying to get 21 outs so you can hand it off to him. Honarable mention goes to Damaso Marte who was also brilliant. With the rest of the bullpen (besides Mariano) doing their best to spit the bit, he definitley showed some backclass and lights out stuff shutting down the Phills.
As far as Lidge goes, sure he wasn't good in his only apperance. And I really believe that if he gets out of that inning the Phills probably win that game in the bottom of the inning with the heart coming up. But with that being said, maybe Manuel should have gotten his feet wet a little earlier than game 4. Not making excuses for the guy, but he hadn't seen action for a while. Also give Johnny Damon credit for a great at bat, and of course A-Rod.
With exception of Burnett in game 2, I really didn't think that Yanks starting pitching was that dominate, but they got the job done.
For the most part with exception of Hamels and Pedro (who should have been lifted earlier) last night, the Phills starting pitching did enough to keep them in the games. But the offense really was never able to put together many big innings.
Also I don't think Charle Manuel did a great job. Down 2-1 you really have to go back to your ace who was so brilliant in game 1. Also last night, playing Ben Francisico. Is there no other better option on the bench?
But in my opinion the Phills offense is the major culprit in them getting beat. The Yanks had a huge hole in the back of their lineup, with Cano, Swisher, Cabrerra/Gardner, but the other guys made them pay. For the Phills besides Utley, Werth and Ruiz (who I can't believe how good he is) the rest of the lineup was a total failure.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Here's my thoughts (for what they are worth).
Obviously Ryan Howard did nothing for the Phillies. But no one is really mentioning the ineffectiveness of Rollins and Victorino to an extent. Utley hit 5 homeruns and 4 of them were solo shots. I really think the ability of Jeter and Damon setting the table versus Rollins and Victorino is a major part that isn't being mentioned. I just feel that Jimmy Rollins is the straw that stirs the Phillies drink. When he's on base he causes chaos, not to mention as the series went on he just seemed to lose that swagger that he has.
As far as pitching goes, Mariano is the best ever at the position. Every other closer in the playoffs had some sort of meltdown, except Mariano. With Mr. Automatic there, you are basically only trying to get 21 outs so you can hand it off to him. Honarable mention goes to Damaso Marte who was also brilliant. With the rest of the bullpen (besides Mariano) doing their best to spit the bit, he definitley showed some backclass and lights out stuff shutting down the Phills.
As far as Lidge goes, sure he wasn't good in his only apperance. And I really believe that if he gets out of that inning the Phills probably win that game in the bottom of the inning with the heart coming up. But with that being said, maybe Manuel should have gotten his feet wet a little earlier than game 4. Not making excuses for the guy, but he hadn't seen action for a while. Also give Johnny Damon credit for a great at bat, and of course A-Rod.
With exception of Burnett in game 2, I really didn't think that Yanks starting pitching was that dominate, but they got the job done.
For the most part with exception of Hamels and Pedro (who should have been lifted earlier) last night, the Phills starting pitching did enough to keep them in the games. But the offense really was never able to put together many big innings.
Also I don't think Charle Manuel did a great job. Down 2-1 you really have to go back to your ace who was so brilliant in game 1. Also last night, playing Ben Francisico. Is there no other better option on the bench?
But in my opinion the Phills offense is the major culprit in them getting beat. The Yanks had a huge hole in the back of their lineup, with Cano, Swisher, Cabrerra/Gardner, but the other guys made them pay. For the Phills besides Utley, Werth and Ruiz (who I can't believe how good he is) the rest of the lineup was a total failure.

Still don't understand the Dodgers giving up on Werth.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Still don't understand the Dodgers giving up on Werth.

AND Victorino... scud's favorite player.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Here's my thoughts (for what they are worth).
Obviously Ryan Howard did nothing for the Phillies. But no one is really mentioning the ineffectiveness of Rollins and Victorino to an extent. Utley hit 5 homeruns and 4 of them were solo shots. I really think the ability of Jeter and Damon setting the table versus Rollins and Victorino is a major part that isn't being mentioned. I just feel that Jimmy Rollins is the straw that stirs the Phillies drink. When he's on base he causes chaos, not to mention as the series went on he just seemed to lose that swagger that he has.
As far as pitching goes, Mariano is the best ever at the position. Every other closer in the playoffs had some sort of meltdown, except Mariano. With Mr. Automatic there, you are basically only trying to get 21 outs so you can hand it off to him. Honarable mention goes to Damaso Marte who was also brilliant. With the rest of the bullpen (besides Mariano) doing their best to spit the bit, he definitley showed some backclass and lights out stuff shutting down the Phills.
As far as Lidge goes, sure he wasn't good in his only apperance. And I really believe that if he gets out of that inning the Phills probably win that game in the bottom of the inning with the heart coming up. But with that being said, maybe Manuel should have gotten his feet wet a little earlier than game 4. Not making excuses for the guy, but he hadn't seen action for a while. Also give Johnny Damon credit for a great at bat, and of course A-Rod.
With exception of Burnett in game 2, I really didn't think that Yanks starting pitching was that dominate, but they got the job done.
For the most part with exception of Hamels and Pedro (who should have been lifted earlier) last night, the Phills starting pitching did enough to keep them in the games. But the offense really was never able to put together many big innings.
Also I don't think Charle Manuel did a great job. Down 2-1 you really have to go back to your ace who was so brilliant in game 1. Also last night, playing Ben Francisico. Is there no other better option on the bench?
But in my opinion the Phills offense is the major culprit in them getting beat. The Yanks had a huge hole in the back of their lineup, with Cano, Swisher, Cabrerra/Gardner, but the other guys made them pay. For the Phills besides Utley, Werth and Ruiz (who I can't believe how good he is) the rest of the lineup was a total failure.

I agree with everything except maybe the Lidge thing. He just didnt belong there and did nothing at all this year to prove he belonged there. He's okay as long as EVERYTHING goes his way.. but when Damon stole second and third you could see everything drain out of Lidge. Then its on the manager to get someone else out there to record that 3rd out (2 outs when Damon did the stealing) and get outta there without giving up any runs. I guess the problem was We dont Have anyone else!!!

I'm proud of my team though I REALLY wanted to win and also a better outing. Its just ashame our offense had to slump so bad because the Yanks were very hittable.

And yes.. from the beginning of the thread.. I'd still take Ruiz over Posada and Howard over Tex (though Howard stunk) any day.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I agree with everything except maybe the Lidge thing. He just didnt belong there and did nothing at all this year to prove he belonged there. He's okay as long as EVERYTHING goes his way.. but when Damon stole second and third you could see everything drain out of Lidge. Then its on the manager to get someone else out there to record that 3rd out (2 outs when Damon did the stealing) and get outta there without giving up any runs. I guess the problem was We dont Have anyone else!!!

I'm proud of my team though I REALLY wanted to win and also a better outing. Its just ashame our offense had to slump so bad because the Yanks were very hittable.

And yes.. from the beginning of the thread.. I'd still take Ruiz over Posada and Howard over Tex (though Howard stunk) any day.

I know he really did nothing with his bat. And if they would have lost, he would have been public enemy #1 (maybe #2 behind Girardi). But the amount of errors/runs that he saved with his glove during the entire playoffs is amazing. He was tremendous defensively. I could cringe think about these playoffs with Jason Giambi at first base.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Here's my thoughts (for what they are worth).
Obviously Ryan Howard did nothing for the Phillies. But no one is really mentioning the ineffectiveness of Rollins and Victorino to an extent. Utley hit 5 homeruns and 4 of them were solo shots. I really think the ability of Jeter and Damon setting the table versus Rollins and Victorino is a major part that isn't being mentioned. I just feel that Jimmy Rollins is the straw that stirs the Phillies drink. When he's on base he causes chaos, not to mention as the series went on he just seemed to lose that swagger that he has.
As far as pitching goes, Mariano is the best ever at the position. Every other closer in the playoffs had some sort of meltdown, except Mariano. With Mr. Automatic there, you are basically only trying to get 21 outs so you can hand it off to him. Honarable mention goes to Damaso Marte who was also brilliant. With the rest of the bullpen (besides Mariano) doing their best to spit the bit, he definitley showed some backclass and lights out stuff shutting down the Phills.
As far as Lidge goes, sure he wasn't good in his only apperance. And I really believe that if he gets out of that inning the Phills probably win that game in the bottom of the inning with the heart coming up. But with that being said, maybe Manuel should have gotten his feet wet a little earlier than game 4. Not making excuses for the guy, but he hadn't seen action for a while. Also give Johnny Damon credit for a great at bat, and of course A-Rod.
With exception of Burnett in game 2, I really didn't think that Yanks starting pitching was that dominate, but they got the job done.
For the most part with exception of Hamels and Pedro (who should have been lifted earlier) last night, the Phills starting pitching did enough to keep them in the games. But the offense really was never able to put together many big innings.
Also I don't think Charle Manuel did a great job. Down 2-1 you really have to go back to your ace who was so brilliant in game 1. Also last night, playing Ben Francisico. Is there no other better option on the bench?
But in my opinion the Phills offense is the major culprit in them getting beat. The Yanks had a huge hole in the back of their lineup, with Cano, Swisher, Cabrerra/Gardner, but the other guys made them pay. For the Phills besides Utley, Werth and Ruiz (who I can't believe how good he is) the rest of the lineup was a total failure.

Definitely agree. You can add Lidge's demise in Game 4, and Hamels mental mistake pitches in the 5th innning of Game 3. Pettitte was awful last night. Phils missed a lot of 2-0 and 3-1 counts last night. They should of had him.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Gander

It really came down to Ryan Howard. There is no way possible the Phillies beat the Yankees without major production from him. They didnt get it, in fact they didnt get squat from him. They lose. Its really that simple. Doesnt matter who pitches for the Phillies. Lee could have pitched 3 gems and they would have still lost without Ryan Howard being Ryan Howard.

He didnt need to be as crazy good as he was in against the Dodgers but he needed to produce. He sucked and they lost to a Yankee team who didnt play anywhere close to their true ability.

Ryan Howard played for the most part like Ryan Howard. The Yankees buried him with lefties and he simply doesnt hit lefties. He overwhelmingly faced lefties during the series, he did not hit them.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

hamels blowing a three run lead was the turning point and lidge's meltdown was the final nail in the coffin. We had no chance winning 3 games in a row when Hamels would have to start game 7.

I really wasnt super impressed by your half billion dollar starting pitchers, though they didnt blow up (except burnett game 5), they were very hittable including CC (except burnett game 2). Howard going cold and swinging at every pitch 10 inches outside the plate slider that was thrown really didnt help.

Rivera was your pitching advantage over Lidge, as well as ANY of your pitchers over Hamels, but that is all IMO.

Starting Happ game 3 instead of Hamels could have been a difference maker.

pedro was outpitched in both starts by different pitchers

cc and blanton was a wash

lee outpitched cc and burnett in his 2 starts

as bad as howard was , our mvp for the regualar season did not show up either - mark tex - so if you cry about howard not hitting we can cry about tex not hitting