2009 Breeders' Cup

[Gander]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And they are going to be VASTLY out-numbered by people who want her to win. She is the only active horse in the country that has garnered the type of attention that will get the average joe to plunk down their money.

The BC betting is very often driven by reputation and popularity. That is the reason why Street Sense was the favorite in 2007, right?

NT

You think so? I dont think she has much of a fan base at all. It would be one thing to say this about Rachel but most people really dont even know who she is. I dont remmeber Street Sense being that popular either. To me he was very forgettable, just like Zenyatta has been.

[pweizer]

I think zenyatta and Rip Van Winkle will vie for favoritism. Based on last year, all Euros will be overbet. Zenyatta has a huge fan base in California. I am not sute the same can be said for Gio Ponte.

Paul

[CSC]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I think zenyatta and Rip Van Winkle will vie for favoritism. Based on last year, all Euros will be overbet. Zenyatta has a huge fan base in California. I am not sute the same can be said for Gio Ponte.

Paul

Zenayatta will take more money than 2009 HOY Summer Bird()

You know seriously he may be forgotten with Rip Van Winkle, Gio Ponti, hopefully Colonel John, Derby winners always seem to take money Mine That Bird, Richard's Kid...ect... I know he's the best horse at 1 1/4, the only question is does he have one more big race in the tank and the obvious risk of not knowing how he will fare on pro ride. Which will be a bonus to his odds if you want a positive spin of not running on dirt.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

You think so? I dont think she has much of a fan base at all. It would be one thing to say this about Rachel but most people really dont even know who she is. I dont remmeber Street Sense being that popular either. To me he was very forgettable, just like Zenyatta has been.

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

dang, forgot about summer bird.....heck he goes off about the same as Zenyatta,

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

I agree 100%. If Zenyatta wins the Classic, I will be very impressed as this is a much better field of horses than Rachel took down in any of her 3 wins vs males. Then she will be interesting and a huge story. For now, shes a very good, freakishly consistent horse who only runs in races in her own element.

I still think she doesnt go here and instead opts for the Ladies Classic. Why would we expect anything else from her connections, when they have already had many opportunities to try the males? Wake me up when the Ladies Classic is over.

The Classic is going to be an awesome race, but so, so much better if Zenyatta go. I hope she does.

[Antitrust32]

Exactly Gander, this will become a moot point when Z runs in the Distaff or scratches out of both races. Maybe it will rain and they dont want to run her on wet pro-ride.. like they did at Churchill. It is very hard to root for this horse because of her chicken **** owners. Of course its not the horses fault but it become redundant and boring.

I really hope she runs in the Classic and does well.. then I can appreciate her. If she runs in the Distaff I hope she runs a non-threatening 5th, so the owners can go cry.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Gander

I agree 100%. If Zenyatta wins the Classic, I will be very impressed as this is a much better field of horses than Rachel took down in any of her 3 wins vs males. Then she will be interesting and a huge story. For now, shes a very good, freakishly consistent horse who only runs in races in her own element.

I still think she doesnt go here and instead opts for the Ladies Classic. Why would we expect anything else from her connections, when they have already had many opportunities to try the males? Wake me up when the Ladies Classic is over.

The Classic is going to be an awesome race, but so, so much better if Zenyatta go. I hope she does.

Then if either Z or SB win the Classic, is it fair to say they should seriously receive HOY consideration, and a horse sitting on the sidelines protecting her record should not get it via defacto.

[slotdirt]

Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.

Couldnt agree more. 1 race doesnt make anybody HOY. Her other wins have been jokes against very slow animals.

If any horse ever deserved to sit on the sidelines, its Rachel Alexandra. What she did this year is simply amazing. Shes HOY unless Summer Bird wins this in a romp, then it may be a close vote.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Then if either Z or SB win the Classic, is it fair to say they should seriously receive HOY consideration, and a horse sitting on the sidelines protecting her record should not get it via defacto.

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic!

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her!

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic!

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her!

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.

Actually I don't care for Zenyatta, other than if she gets consideration those misguided voters should look at Summer Bird, I know the Rachel fans love dining out on her Haskel win but culmulatively if Summer Bird wins the BC he would have faced far better horses than RA has this year while winning on both synth and dirt tracks. Twice I might add at the classic distance. That's all that matters, she may have been better than him in one race in the summer, I doubt she is now in the fall(present tense), otherwise Jess would surely try to add to her legacy, that's what it is all about with her he was quoted as saying, well strange way of showing it.

Most people say in for a penny in for a pound, in RA's case in for a penny in for 1/2 a pound is quite apropos.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Actually I don't care for Zenyatta, other than if she gets consideration those misguided voters should look at Summer Bird, I know the Rachel fans love dining out on her Haskel win but culmulatively if Summer Bird wins the BC he would have faced far better horses than RA has this year while winning on both synth and dirt tracks. Twice I might add at the classic distance. That's all that matters, she may have been better than him in one race in the summer, I doubt she is now in the fall(present tense), otherwise Jess would surely try to add to her legacy, that's what it is all about with her he was quoted as saying, well strange way of showing it.

Most people say in for a penny in for a pound, in RA's case in for a penny in for 1/2 a pound is quite apropos.

Him winning at 1 1/4 and her winning at 1 1/8th means nothing for either horse's HOY chances. this "classic" distance thing is out dated.

So far, Summer Bird has not faced "far better horses" at all. And only will in the BC because of some good turfers who are running on a alternate turf surface.

I like Summer Bird quite a bit, eventhough i am a Rachel homer. I also think a Summer Bird BC win would make him a MUCH better HOY selection instead of a Zenyatta BC winner. But neither have a chance against Rachel.

But lets revisit this after the BC, because most likely SB will not win (not because he's not the best.. he is probably the best pre-entry in that race.. but because of the surface), and if he DOES win then we can bring this subject back up.