2009 Breeders' Cup

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

yea and Azeri would be odds on in Chicago and not 2/1....there are going to be some many "she cant win" articles being written, I think Crist has it pre-typed. I am not saying one way or another at this point, but get ready for a wave of negativity on this, there is going to be people with pom poms in the horse racing industry/media rooting for her to lose.

And they are going to be VASTLY out-numbered by people who want her to win. She is the only active horse in the country that has garnered the type of attention that will get the average joe to plunk down their money.

The BC betting is very often driven by reputation and popularity. That is the reason why Street Sense was the favorite in 2007, right?

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And they are going to be VASTLY out-numbered by people who want her to win. She is the only active horse in the country that has garnered the type of attention that will get the average joe to plunk down their money.

The BC betting is very often driven by reputation and popularity. That is the reason why Street Sense was the favorite in 2007, right?

NT

what do average joe's bet...cmon.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

what do average joe's bet...cmon.

I'm not going to argue with you but there's absolutely no way two or three horses are going to go off lower odds in the Classic than Zenyatta. No way.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm not going to argue with you but there's absolutely no way two or three horses are going to go off lower odds in the Classic than Zenyatta. No way.

NT

I guess we will see, unless we see some defections you will be proven wrong.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm not going to argue with you but there's absolutely no way two or three horses are going to go off lower odds in the Classic than Zenyatta. No way.

NT

How much stupid money is bet on the BC? it cant be anything like the Derby where everyone wants to make a bet. If there is a lot of stupid money bet I could see her as the 2nd choice behind Summer Bird (he's a better bet but its also similar stupid money bet on him because of the lack of synthetic experience).

Based on performance it should go - the best Euro should be favored (because of the stupid surface), then Summer Bird, Gio, the next best Euro, then Zenyatta.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And they are going to be VASTLY out-numbered by people who want her to win. She is the only active horse in the country that has garnered the type of attention that will get the average joe to plunk down their money.

The BC betting is very often driven by reputation and popularity. That is the reason why Street Sense was the favorite in 2007, right?

NT

You think so? I dont think she has much of a fan base at all. It would be one thing to say this about Rachel but most people really dont even know who she is. I dont remmeber Street Sense being that popular either. To me he was very forgettable, just like Zenyatta has been.

[pweizer]

I think zenyatta and Rip Van Winkle will vie for favoritism. Based on last year, all Euros will be overbet. Zenyatta has a huge fan base in California. I am not sute the same can be said for Gio Ponte.

Paul

[CSC]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I think zenyatta and Rip Van Winkle will vie for favoritism. Based on last year, all Euros will be overbet. Zenyatta has a huge fan base in California. I am not sute the same can be said for Gio Ponte.

Paul

Zenayatta will take more money than 2009 HOY Summer Bird()

You know seriously he may be forgotten with Rip Van Winkle, Gio Ponti, hopefully Colonel John, Derby winners always seem to take money Mine That Bird, Richard's Kid...ect... I know he's the best horse at 1 1/4, the only question is does he have one more big race in the tank and the obvious risk of not knowing how he will fare on pro ride. Which will be a bonus to his odds if you want a positive spin of not running on dirt.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Gander

You think so? I dont think she has much of a fan base at all. It would be one thing to say this about Rachel but most people really dont even know who she is. I dont remmeber Street Sense being that popular either. To me he was very forgettable, just like Zenyatta has been.

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

dang, forgot about summer bird.....heck he goes off about the same as Zenyatta,

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I had typed out something long and similar to this but didnt post. I really dont get the whole "Zenyatta superstar" thing at all. She has only won one race that anyone outside the industry/gamblers would have watched, the distaff.

The only reason she may get the attention is because its in California, and that is where she has excelled.

She is definately not in the Smarty Jones/Rachel Alexandra/Cigar superstar category.. where you could ask your average football fan if you heard of the horse.. nobody knows who Zenyatta is.

I think based on popularity, and not just limited to Cali popularity, Summer Bird has the most "star" quality because he at least won a TC race. Some average joe's may know who he is. The reality is, outside of the TC and MAYBE the BC (not on the same level as the TC though), nobody knows or cares who is racing outside of gamblers.

I agree 100%. If Zenyatta wins the Classic, I will be very impressed as this is a much better field of horses than Rachel took down in any of her 3 wins vs males. Then she will be interesting and a huge story. For now, shes a very good, freakishly consistent horse who only runs in races in her own element.

I still think she doesnt go here and instead opts for the Ladies Classic. Why would we expect anything else from her connections, when they have already had many opportunities to try the males? Wake me up when the Ladies Classic is over.

The Classic is going to be an awesome race, but so, so much better if Zenyatta go. I hope she does.

[Antitrust32]

Exactly Gander, this will become a moot point when Z runs in the Distaff or scratches out of both races. Maybe it will rain and they dont want to run her on wet pro-ride.. like they did at Churchill. It is very hard to root for this horse because of her chicken **** owners. Of course its not the horses fault but it become redundant and boring.

I really hope she runs in the Classic and does well.. then I can appreciate her. If she runs in the Distaff I hope she runs a non-threatening 5th, so the owners can go cry.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Gander

I agree 100%. If Zenyatta wins the Classic, I will be very impressed as this is a much better field of horses than Rachel took down in any of her 3 wins vs males. Then she will be interesting and a huge story. For now, shes a very good, freakishly consistent horse who only runs in races in her own element.

I still think she doesnt go here and instead opts for the Ladies Classic. Why would we expect anything else from her connections, when they have already had many opportunities to try the males? Wake me up when the Ladies Classic is over.

The Classic is going to be an awesome race, but so, so much better if Zenyatta go. I hope she does.

Then if either Z or SB win the Classic, is it fair to say they should seriously receive HOY consideration, and a horse sitting on the sidelines protecting her record should not get it via defacto.

[slotdirt]

Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.

Couldnt agree more. 1 race doesnt make anybody HOY. Her other wins have been jokes against very slow animals.

If any horse ever deserved to sit on the sidelines, its Rachel Alexandra. What she did this year is simply amazing. Shes HOY unless Summer Bird wins this in a romp, then it may be a close vote.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Then if either Z or SB win the Classic, is it fair to say they should seriously receive HOY consideration, and a horse sitting on the sidelines protecting her record should not get it via defacto.

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic!

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her!

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic!

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her!

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.

Actually I don't care for Zenyatta, other than if she gets consideration those misguided voters should look at Summer Bird, I know the Rachel fans love dining out on her Haskel win but culmulatively if Summer Bird wins the BC he would have faced far better horses than RA has this year while winning on both synth and dirt tracks. Twice I might add at the classic distance. That's all that matters, she may have been better than him in one race in the summer, I doubt she is now in the fall(present tense), otherwise Jess would surely try to add to her legacy, that's what it is all about with her he was quoted as saying, well strange way of showing it.

Most people say in for a penny in for a pound, in RA's case in for a penny in for 1/2 a pound is quite apropos.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And they are going to be VASTLY out-numbered by people who want her to win. She is the only active horse in the country that has garnered the type of attention that will get the average joe to plunk down their money.

The BC betting is very often driven by reputation and popularity. That is the reason why Street Sense was the favorite in 2007, right?

NT

2007 Derby? He was the favorite because he was the best horse in the field at that point in their careers. Not sure what your point is.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by philcski

2007 Derby? He was the favorite because he was the best horse in the field at that point in their careers. Not sure what your point is.

My point was that people who don't regularly follow the game but get involved on big days recognize certain horses and bet them. Zenyatta is one of them, Gio Ponti is not.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

My point was that people who don't regularly follow the game but get involved on big days recognize certain horses and bet them. Zenyatta is one of them, Gio Ponti is not.

NT

yea, they bet like 5 bucks (say you have 1000 of them)...there are people that will wager $5000 if they really liked someone in that race.