Top 5 best two-surface horses of the last 20 years

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

Off the top of my head 3 worth discussing Chester House, Dance Smartly and War Chant all showed a proficiency for both surfaces.

Chester House made four career starts on dirt and was never 1st or 2nd. Even losing to Lager at AQU. Not a great turf horse either - though he had a race or two for sure.

War Chant's biggest win on dirt was a narrow win over Archer City Slew in the San Rafeal. He beat Road to Slew in his first turf win - and won a 4 way blanket finish in his BC Mile win.

I think War Chant's dam Hollywood Wildcat is FAR more deserving. She was a beast on turf - and owns a Breeders Cup Distaff win on dirt.

I loved Dance Smartly - but her turf races weren't that impressive.

Affirmed Success is an American based horse who could make a top 20.

Balto Star beat The Tin Man on turf in the United Nations and Mineshaft on dirt in the year Mineshaft won the HOY. He was a super 3yo during the KY derby prep season. He could possibly weasel into a top 20 list.

[Antitrust32]

along with barbaro, i think Peace Rules was okay on both surfaces.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I loved Dance Smartly - but her turf races weren't that impressive.

I think DS is one of the most underrated horses of this era despite making the HOF, understandably perhaps because alot of race goers just didn't have a chance to see her best races which came in Canada, but thankfully her races are now readily available on youtube for everyone to see if they are interested. Her Breeders stakes turf race was a superb effort in her 3 yr old season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypzZ9...eature=related

Unfortunately she suffered an injury prior to her 4 yr old and she wasn't the same horse after that, still she managed a good 3rd in the Bev D. I wish she had run a few more times in America in her 3 yr old season to see where she stood to the other great fillies. Perhaps this would have given her the recognition she truly deserved.

[cakes44]

How far down the list would Electrocutionist be?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cakes44

How far down the list would Electrocutionist be?

He's in the top 20 mix ... excellent turf horse with two ok dirt wins ... but beating Brass Hat and Wilko in workmanlike fashion only gets you so far.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Elusive Quality is like a top 5-to-10 two-surface horse based on speed figures ... but would probably be impossible to put in the top 500 because of his record.

Ultimate all-time poster horse for big speed figures against cheap horses and big flops in stakes.

Elusive Quality ran a 122 Beyer on dirt as a 4yo and a 123 on dirt the next year. He also ran a 112 on turf - only a 113 by Da Hoss in the Breeders Cup Mile was higher on turf that year.

The problem is that Elusive Quality never won a stakes race of any kind on dirt - and never won anything more than a Grade 3 on turf. Good sire though - he has a Kentucky Derby winner in Smarty Jones and a BC Classic winner in Raven's Pass .. as well as a top flight 3yo this year in Quality Road.

[Antitrust32]

einstein?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He's top 5 three surfaces for sure.

Nice Brazil bred... but I'd give a slight edge to the Brazil bred Sandpit over Einstein.

[richard]

Affirmed Success jumps out at me . A great one .

[smuthg]

I can't remember, were any of Invasor's wins in South America on the turf? What about Midnight Lute? Great on Dirt and a Breeders' Cup Sprint winner on both Dirt and "pro-ride"...

On the Barbaro front, how many exclusively US based horses would be placed ahead of him?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I can't remember, were any of Invasor's wins in South America on the turf? What about Midnight Lute? Great on Dirt and a Breeders' Cup Sprint winner on both Dirt and "pro-ride"...

On the Barbaro front, how many exclusively US based horses would be placed ahead of him?

No and No with Invasor and ML.

However ... Midnight Lute and Raven's Pass have the two best cases for syth and something else.

Obviously dirt and syn for ML and turf and syn for RP. Though, that wasn't what I intended to rate.

As for Barbaro ... it really boils down to two questions. 1.) are you rating based on what he might have done or what he actually did? 2.) Do you discredit 2yo turf racing because it's never mattered much here?

Based on how you answer those two questions ... you'll either have very few exclusive US horses ahead of him or many.