FL racinos get video blackjack nod

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, I guess you took this personally, but I don't need any welfare. I can play that game too. Win more than a race a month and you might not either.

Seriously though, the product sucks right now and these purse enhancements do nothing to make it better. Nobody is betting much, check all the handle stats. I guess you guys can go the steeplechase route eventually.

LOL. So its ok for you to always take shots at horseman but when I make a little dig at you you want to get personal? Get a grip.
Do you really think I care that much about what you think or say?

If the product sucks and the sport is finished then why don't you find something else to spend your time on? Think everything will be great when your grand vision of only a few track surviving comes true? The purse enhancements may not drive handle but it does help keep owners in business. Not to mention that horseman are getting roughly 10% of the revenue. The tracks are the ones who clean up.

[cmorioles]

You clearly made it personal first, but that is fine.

I don't claim to have all the answers. I know for sure what we are doing now isn't working, and slots are a band aid that won't last forever. Anybody that thinks they will is living in dream land.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You clearly made it personal first, but that is fine.

I don't claim to have all the answers. I know for sure what we are doing now isn't working, and slots are a band aid that won't last forever. Anybody that thinks they will is living in dream land.

I made a tongue in cheek reference to stimulus packages. Sorry if you are humorless.

It isnt about having answers. However you always take potshots at horseman over slots as if we shouldnt be proactive over our future. I'm sure that you are in favor of something being given back to the gambler. Why would the horsemans desire be any different? Simply wanting the opportunity to have a better chance at keeping your head above water in a very difficult venture?

If you had a better idea of how to do things that takes into consideration the reality of political considerations, i would love to hear it.

[cmorioles]

You made a tongue and cheek reference to my business.

Slots money isn't going to be there forever, of that I am sure. In the mean time, customers are leaving in droves. It is already happening at some places. What happens when that money is gone and the customers are gone, too?

Of course it is the tracks more than horsemen, I'll concede that point. I should have said welfare for tracks, of which horsemen are a part. Slots keep places in business that really don't belong in business. The effect is we have too many tracks with not enough horses, and crappy races to bet. Thus, people don't bet. That wouldn't be so bad if tied into the slots money were takeout cuts, but I haven't seen that happen, ever. When it does maybe my mind will change.

I have never said I want only a few tracks, but it wouldn't hurt to cut 25-30% of them. Hell, just in infrastructure alone the game could save millions. Do we really need Aqueduct and Belmont? Monmouth and the Meadowlands? Santa Anita and Hollywood? Pimlico and Laurel? Of course we don't.

That only tackles tracks in the same state in close proximity to each other. I could go on a with things like Philly and Delaware Park, Penn National and Charles Town, Turfway and River Downs, and so on. These tracks could work together and make things better for all with less dates.

In the end, the name of the game is handle. Without some of the changes I mention, it will continue to shrink. Just the fact that on a summer Saturday there are about 50 win pools to bet in makes the game very hard to play. The pools are diluted and unbettable at most places for all but the casual fan.

As for the political considerations, of course it is hard. But, is anybody even trying to change anything?

Finally, thanks for your take it or leave it statement. That is typical of a horsemen and a big part of why I think the way I do about things.

[gales0678]

orioles - are slots not wokrking at a venue like yonkers?

here was a place on death's door a few years ago , now places is packed , purses are up , better racing , cards on the way , possible hotel on the way , more jobs for ny'ers on the way.....what is bad about this? , am i missing something here , is the rooney family missing something here?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by gales0678

orioles - are slots not wokrking at a venue like yonkers?

here was a place on death's door a few years ago , now places is packed , purses are up , better racing , cards on the way , possible hotel on the way , more jobs for ny'ers on the way.....what is bad about this? , am i missing something here , is the rooney family missing something here?

I don't follow harness racing, so I don't know the specifics of the situation. The biggest problem with slots is that the money isn't coming from the sport, so it can be taken away...then what?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't follow harness racing, so I don't know the specifics of the situation. The biggest problem with slots is that the money isn't coming from the sport, so it can be taken away...then what?

taken away by what? yonkers is expanding , what worked at yonkers s/b able to work at the big a or belmont

now i'll give you that 8/10 customers may not be able to read the form or know the difference between a claiming race or a stakes race , but , something is working , does the rooney family miss the big picture here?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't follow harness racing, so I don't know the specifics of the situation. The biggest problem with slots is that the money isn't coming from the sport, so it can be taken away...then what?

But is the handle "coming from the sport"? It has been taken away has it not?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You made a tongue and cheek reference to my business.

Slots money isn't going to be there forever, of that I am sure. In the mean time, customers are leaving in droves. It is already happening at some places. What happens when that money is gone and the customers are gone, too?

Of course it is the tracks more than horsemen, I'll concede that point. I should have said welfare for tracks, of which horsemen are a part. Slots keep places in business that really don't belong in business. The effect is we have too many tracks with not enough horses, and crappy races to bet. Thus, people don't bet. That wouldn't be so bad if tied into the slots money were takeout cuts, but I haven't seen that happen, ever. When it does maybe my mind will change.

I have never said I want only a few tracks, but it wouldn't hurt to cut 25-30% of them. Hell, just in infrastructure alone the game could save millions. Do we really need Aqueduct and Belmont? Monmouth and the Meadowlands? Santa Anita and Hollywood? Pimlico and Laurel? Of course we don't.

That only tackles tracks in the same state in close proximity to each other. I could go on a with things like Philly and Delaware Park, Penn National and Charles Town, Turfway and River Downs, and so on. These tracks could work together and make things better for all with less dates.

In the end, the name of the game is handle. Without some of the changes I mention, it will continue to shrink. Just the fact that on a summer Saturday there are about 50 win pools to bet in makes the game very hard to play. The pools are diluted and unbettable at most places for all but the casual fan.

As for the political considerations, of course it is hard. But, is anybody even trying to change anything?

Finally, thanks for your take it or leave it statement. That is typical of a horsemen and a big part of why I think the way I do about things.

So it is ok to speak about my business but yours if off limits? Hey I may be a peon in the horse racing business but I am a face with a name. Why the sensitivity?

As for your take on closing tracks, it would be a great idea for track operators but I fail to see how racing Aqueducts meet at Belmont or Santa Anita's at Hollywood makes a difference in the quality of the product. Same crappy product, just now the same location. What you really want is the business forced to make drastic changes to itself and you believe that taking away slot money would make that happen. While that may play out in theory there are simply too many different variables to ever make that possible. Not that there arent isolated changes that have occurred or occasions where money will be taken away. But you are thinking globally here and racing is a local game.

The name of the game is handle. But slot money going to tracks doesnt chase players away any faster than if the tracks didnt have slots and some private operator right down the road did. It is a fallacious argument.

The ironic part is the vast majority of horseman support the bettors and their issues. A lot of them contribute tons of money themselves towards handle. But very rarely do we ever get any support from your side of the table. Not that it matters because the tracks and regulators dont really care, they have their own agendas.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So it is ok to speak about my business but yours if off limits? Hey I may be a peon in the horse racing business but I am a face with a name. Why the sensitivity?

As for your take on closing tracks, it would be a great idea for track operators but I fail to see how racing Aqueducts meet at Belmont or Santa Anita's at Hollywood makes a difference in the quality of the product. Same crappy product, just now the same location. What you really want is the business forced to make drastic changes to itself and you believe that taking away slot money would make that happen. While that may play out in theory there are simply too many different variables to ever make that possible. Not that there arent isolated changes that have occurred or occasions where money will be taken away. But you are thinking globally here and racing is a local game.

The name of the game is handle. But slot money going to tracks doesnt chase players away any faster than if the tracks didnt have slots and some private operator right down the road did. It is a fallacious argument.

The ironic part is the vast majority of horseman support the bettors and their issues. A lot of them contribute tons of money themselves towards handle. But very rarely do we ever get any support from your side of the table. Not that it matters because the tracks and regulators dont really care, they have their own agendas.

If you closed tracks you cut into fixed overhead. You sell off the land and hopefully reinvest it into the other property. Also you never get that until you take the bottle away from the baby it can learn to eat food.

This entitlement BS is holding the industry back. There are WAY TO MANY RACES

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If you closed tracks you cut into fixed overhead. You sell off the land and hopefully reinvest it into the other property. Also you never get that until you take the bottle away from the baby it can learn to eat food.

This entitlement BS is holding the industry back. There are WAY TO MANY RACES

Ok so you make some improvements to the existing track. But isnt handle being shifted more and more off track?

Like it or not the horseman are partners with the tracks. Always have been. We provide the product. The tracks wants to expand their menu? Fine but as their partner we get a piece of the action. Why is this hard to understand?