NYT: Drugs & I Want Revenge

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I doubt the betting public would have any clue what to do with the information or how you would control the validity of the information in the first place? Wouldnt the ability to further abuse the system be greater by allowing trainers/owners/vets to create a shadow of a doubt on claiming horses by taking a bunch of xrays and injecting a bunch of things before a horse dropping in class runs, even if wasnt done or needed? How would you police the vets to insure that they were indeed doing the work on the horse listed?

I'm bummed I didn't have time to get back to this thread sooner- entertaining read.

Lots of the betting public has no idea what to do with timed workouts, PPs, etc. Does that mean they should be ditched? It's up to the bettor if he or she wants to do the work to learn what the info means (as anyone who can read a racing form had to at one time), but at least make the information public, so they can use it if they want. No one forces a bettor to watch a horse's previous races, but the info is out there if they want it.

As for the possibility of abuse, geez louise, you will ALWAYS have cheaters. Or do you believe the idea for lip tattoos came BEFORE the idea of switching horses in races? You set up the rules and penalties for those who break the rules, and do the best you can to police. But in the end, is more information better than less? Absolutely, especially when you're talking about the bettors, who are the consumers of this product. It's up to them whether they choose to use it or not, but they deserve more information, not less.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I'm bummed I didn't have time to get back to this thread sooner- entertaining read.

Lots of the betting public has no idea what to do with timed workouts, PPs, etc. Does that mean they should be ditched? It's up to the bettor if he or she wants to do the work to learn what the info means (as anyone who can read a racing form had to at one time), but at least make the information public, so they can use it if they want. No one forces a bettor to watch a horse's previous races, but the info is out there if they want it.

As for the possibility of abuse, geez louise, you will ALWAYS have cheaters. Or do you believe the idea for lip tattoos came BEFORE the idea of switching horses in races? You set up the rules and penalties for those who break the rules, and do the best you can to police. But in the end, is more information better than less? Absolutely, especially when you're talking about the bettors, who are the consumers of this product. It's up to them whether they choose to use it or not, but they deserve more information, not less.

Assuming that all this information deserves to be made public (a point that I don't concede), where would you put all this information? If we were to include a horse's vet records in the PPs, the DRF would probably cost $100. Also, a lot of the meds are given 24-48 hours before the race, so how would that disclosure work?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Assuming that all this information deserves to be made public (a point that I don't concede), where would you put all this information? If we were to include a horse's vet records in the PPs, the DRF would probably cost $100. Also, a lot of the meds are given 24-48 hours before the race, so how would that disclosure work?

Can you imagine the lawsuits that will arise when a guy claims a horse who doesnt pan out and his lawyer starts picking apart the previous trainers/owners vet reports?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Can you imagine the lawsuits that will arise when a guy claims a horse who doesnt pan out and his lawyer starts picking apart the previous trainers/owners vet reports?

I'd just sue the insurance company.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'd just sue the insurance company.

They are preying on our sick and elderly...oops wrong section.

This guy writes a nice piece on the article

http://fuguefortinhorns.blogspot.com...ork-times.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This guy writes a nice piece on the article

http://fuguefortinhorns.blogspot.com...ork-times.html

If only Joe Drape would read the above.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Riot

If only Joe Drape would read the above.

Yeah, but now the NTRA/Breeders Cup announces a handicapping seminar as part of its "Tweeters Cup" at Santa Anita, and who do they have as one of their panelists? Joe Drape. I'm sure that his early season selection of (the supposedly drug-free) Mafaaz as his top Derby candidate qualified him for his spot on this panel. And we wonder why people question the leadership of the sport?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'd just sue the insurance company.

LOL. I'm not falling for it this time!

[Cannon Shell]

http://thoroughbredbrief.wordpress.c...p-and-control/

Very well presented piece

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://thoroughbredbrief.wordpress.c...p-and-control/

Very well presented piece

Your mother always wanted you to be a lawyer

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://thoroughbredbrief.wordpress.c...p-and-control/

Very well presented piece

I think you have answered your own question about the law by reading this piece about a decision handed down months ago.
As to insurance companies, horses are property-chattel-and that is what title insurance, et al is for.

The first link you brought up included this:
IEAH is simply saying that it bought into a horse -- for a princely sum -- and was not kept informed of the condition and welfare of their living, breathing investment until such point that he was scratched from the Derby and the colt's unsoundness was undeniable. In fact, IEAH claims it asked Lanzman directly about a Derby Eve rumor that the colt would be scratched and that Lanzman was dishonest by denying the rumor, a claim Lanzman denies.
That makes for a good story. Such claims lead one to question the honesty and transparency of the back side at America's racetracks, and whether even the richest owners who have millions invested are really kept up to speed with what's going on with their horses. And actually, the writer does a very good job of detailing the facts and claims that IEAH has presented regarding that aspect of the case.

IEAH is not an entity I am proud to see represent horseracing for the US. But in this case it appears they are right, legally and morally.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I'm bummed I didn't have time to get back to this thread sooner- entertaining read.

Lots of the betting public has no idea what to do with timed workouts, PPs, etc. Does that mean they should be ditched? It's up to the bettor if he or she wants to do the work to learn what the info means (as anyone who can read a racing form had to at one time), but at least make the information public, so they can use it if they want. No one forces a bettor to watch a horse's previous races, but the info is out there if they want it.

As for the possibility of abuse, geez louise, you will ALWAYS have cheaters. Or do you believe the idea for lip tattoos came BEFORE the idea of switching horses in races? You set up the rules and penalties for those who break the rules, and do the best you can to police. But in the end, is more information better than less? Absolutely, especially when you're talking about the bettors, who are the consumers of this product. It's up to them whether they choose to use it or not, but they deserve more information, not less.

I am not sure I agree that this should be public information. Does the NFL tell you what treatments or shots the players got each week? Hell they outright lie on a required injury list all the time. I understand that with people there are privacy issues but honestly I dont think that opening up vet records to the public will do anything but create more controversy where there isnt anything controversial. Not to mention who exactly is going to collect and disseminate the records? People who bet horseraces always feel slighted but when you compare the amount of info available now as compared to what was available in the past there is no comparison. In my other post what I was saying is that there is almost no thing that can be gleaned from the information so why bother? The fact that I dont think that anyone but the owner or trainer should be privy to the info is another topic.