Summer Bird could be HOY

[Antitrust32]

[quote=CSC]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The point is alot of smart handicappers here recognize Summer Bird was a better horse in the Travers and JCGC, showing tractibility, stamina, and finish in those races, the beyers will of 110-111 will back this up. The issue we are addressing here is, is to the crowd that still believe that RA is 7 lengths better than SB is, my point all along as much as people keep wanting to make this a Haskell argument, is that in the present day, looking forward RA would have had an extreme challenge beating Summer Bird today and had she run in the JCGC she would have lost, This is what I am talking about future races, the races to come, not what has happened.

The thing is, Summer Bird ran a REAL NICE RACE (expecting to get bitched out by fatman for this) in the Haskell. I thought he ran as well there as he did in the Travers. Rachel was hands down spectacular that day, just off the track record on a wet track.. but Summer bird ran his eyeballs out in that race and ran a winning Haskel race, if she hadnt done what she did.

So I just dont see the huge improvement when I thought SB ran very well in the Haskell too. It would be one thing if he would have lost by 30 lengths and ran last, but he was a "real nice colt" in that race too.

[the_fat_man]

[quote=Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

The thing is, Summer Bird ran a REAL NICE RACE (expecting to get bitched out by fatman for this) in the Haskell. I thought he ran as well there as he did in the Travers. Rachel was hands down spectacular that day, just off the track record on a wet track.. but Summer bird ran his eyeballs out in that race and ran a winning Haskel race, if she hadnt done what she did.

So I just dont see the huge improvement when I thought SB ran very well in the Haskell too. It would be one thing if he would have lost by 30 lengths and ran last, but he was a "real nice colt" in that race too.

SB chased in the Haskell and beat a bunch of nothings and a distance challenged Munnings for place. I give SB his due but he just hasn't beaten a REAL horse.

To put things in proper perspective, look at the thread of best Beyers by 3 year olds this year:

You have Munnings with a bunch of 110s or 111s and you have Zensational with a single 111. In what ****in' UNIVERSE other than BEYER LAND or a biased DIRT TRACK does Munnings do anything but SNIFF Zensational's ass? Or that freak at WO that just won the other day running those insane splits? Where's his 'fast' Beyer?

The old paradigm leads to cluelessness.

[Antitrust32]

[quote=the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

SB chased in the Haskell and beat a bunch of nothings and a distance challenged Munning for place. I give SB his due but he just hasn't beaten a REAL horse.

To put things in proper perspective, look at the thread of best Beyers by 3 year olds this year:

You have Munnings with a bunch of 110s or 111s and you have Zensational with a single 111. In what ****in' UNIVERSE other than BEYER LAND or a biased DIRT TRACK does Munnings do anything but SNIFF Zensational's ass? Or that freak at WO that just won the other day running those insane splits? Where's his 'fast' Beyer?

The old paradigm leads to cluelessness.

You have to understand my perspective, I dont bet much at all. I like to follow dirt and turf racing, and I have yet to follow poly racing. I havent checked out the stats lately, but when poly was in its initial stages, there were full fields galore, which leads to better gambling opportunities, though you disagree with that I think.

So we have two completely different thought processes. You want to make money, and I follow this sport like I do the NFL, and only once and awhile to I make a bet.

[CSC]

[quote=the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

SB chased in the Haskell and beat a bunch of nothings and a distance challenged Munnings for place. I give SB his due but he just hasn't beaten a REAL horse.

To put things in proper perspective, look at the thread of best Beyers by 3 year olds this year:

You have Munnings with a bunch of 110s or 111s and you have Zensational with a single 111. In what ****in' UNIVERSE other than BEYER LAND or a biased DIRT TRACK does Munnings do anything but SNIFF Zensational's ass? Or that freak at WO that just won the other day running those insane splits? Where's his 'fast' Beyer?

The old paradigm leads to cluelessness.

I already posted the context of the Haskell race too many times, look for a 3 year old that just started running on Mar 3rd of this year, he's already accomplished alot. A hell of alot more than many 3 yr olds that have been declared great or atleast very good by some, your argument may have some legitimacy next year though I doubt it, he's the real deal. But realistically who can you expect from a horse to beat after only 9 career races. He will prove this in time.

[CSC]

[quote=Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

The thing is, Summer Bird ran a REAL NICE RACE (expecting to get bitched out by fatman for this) in the Haskell. I thought he ran as well there as he did in the Travers. Rachel was hands down spectacular that day, just off the track record on a wet track.. but Summer bird ran his eyeballs out in that race and ran a winning Haskel race, if she hadnt done what she did.

So I just dont see the huge improvement when I thought SB ran very well in the Haskell too. It would be one thing if he would have lost by 30 lengths and ran last, but he was a "real nice colt" in that race too.

He just ran in the Belmont(his 5th career race), cut back from 1 1/2 after a breakthru win, never showed any tractibility at that point, was put on the pace to engage Munnings, ran on a track that will most will concede was more beneficial to RA's style than SB's and still hung on for second. Given the context of these things yes it was a good race, but to suggest he is 7 lengths worser to a horse at 1 1/8, a horse that had infinite amounts of exp over SB. Are these excuses no...but in the context in which this discussion has turned the comments of beating SB like a drum, the implication that he is somewhat inferior to her, they do not belong in the same league, this distortion has to be addressed. Did she beat him by 7 in the Haskell yes, it's in the charts why anyone is even addressing this is a waste of time, will she beat him by 7 again or had they met in the JCGC Sat, I say not a chance she would have.