Summer Bird could be HOY

[3kings]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think at most he would have atleast reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

Agreed! I didn't say it was a good reason or logical, just my opinion of Jackson's reason.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

Let's lobby Interpretation's folks to cut him back to a 5-furlong Poly allowance race this fall, it's unknown and would be exciting, right? The sport would be better for it.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

As a Broodmare prospect and not a Stallian prospect, I think he would do it for the sporting reason only, look at SB's owners, they are having a hell of a time and they have seemingly have concluded that running is better than not running taking a greater risk than a multi millionaire that JJ is.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

Let's lobby Interpretation's folks to cut him back to a 5-furlong Poly allowance race this fall, it's unknown and would be exciting, right? The sport would be better for it.

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. .

I watched tons of race replays from the 90's last night (do I know how to have a good Saturday night or what? ) and it's so completely depressing how far we've fallen from this concept...

It's also a shame that this has completely destroyed the significance of races like the Pimlico Special etc.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

Curlin would have trounced Summer Bird.. We haven't be blessed with a big race from Summer Bird on a fast track perhaps he just loves the slop.. I like Summer Bird but so far he is just a very nice sort.. They could run around Ky and Summer Bird isn't beating Rachel.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Curlin would have trounced Summer Bird.. We haven't be blessed with a big race from Summer Bird on a fast track perhaps he just loves the slop.. I like Summer Bird but so far he is just a very nice sort.. They could run around Ky and Summer Bird isn't beating Rachel.

Why would have Curlin trounced SB? At this point in their careers I would imagine they have to be pretty comparable. Macho Again almost beat RA. Enough said.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why would have Curlin trounced SB? At this point in their careers I would imagine they have to be pretty comparable. Macho Again almost beat RA. Enough said.

Curlin, the 3 year old, was a terrific horse. Did you watch the Haskel did you see the great Summer bird with his new special high cruise speed and new early foot get buried? Did you see him gain a friggin inch on a surface he apparently thrives on.

Unfortunately you still dont comprehend that Rachel was flying the first 4 f's in the Woodward. The fact that she face 3 different runs at her while running every step with an awesome first half seems to escape you. How I have no clue. Macho ran a big race with a great set up he is certainly a Grade one talent and that day was he best effort of his life.

Curlin was at least 5 lengths faster the Summer Bird and had explosive speed. How you can compare the two is puzzling.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

I thought you said the way they keep score is with the purse money now its about seeing who is the best? Dinny Phipps must be pissed at Shug for not going in the 500k race huh. I imagine his scorecard needed the extra 200k lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I thought you said the way they keep score is with the purse money now its about seeing who is the best? Dinny Phipps must be pissed at Shug for not going in the 500k race huh. I imagine his scorecard needed the extra 200k lol

Well if money doesnt count then why are so many horses retired so early because of money?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well if money doesnt count then why are so many horses retired so early because of money?

30 mil counts 250k doesn't.. BTW of course it counts only because it can be counted.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

Funny I think that Curlins perception after the race was brought into a more realistic light. He was a pretty good horse, though hardly the type that Jackson and the infidels thought he was.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Funny I think that Curlins perception after the race was brought into a more realistic light. He was a pretty good horse, though hardly the type that Jackson and the infidels thought he was.

Why, because he was only a pretty good turf horse?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Why, because he was only a pretty good turf horse?

No because he was simply a pretty good horse period.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No because he was simply a pretty good horse period.

I don't buy that for a second. He ran against some very crazy pace scenarios after he returned from Dubai last year in his dirt races. They were all either insanely slow, or on one occasion, crazy fast. Neither one is very conducive to running big figures like he did as a three year old.

That said, he still won them all.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't buy that for a second. He ran against some very crazy pace scenarios after he returned from Dubai last year in his dirt races. They were all either insanely slow, or on one occasion, crazy fast. Neither one is very conducive to running big figures like he did as a three year old.

That said, he still won them all.

And that makes him an alltime great?

[cmorioles]

I never said he was an all time great. But he was certainly better than a pretty good horse. I imagine you would kill to have a pretty good horse, let alone one of Curlin's ability...as would any trainer.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And that makes him an alltime great?

Of course it does.

Beating Macho Again stamps your ticket as well.