10/3 (BEL): JCGC, Hirsch, Beldame, Flower Bowl, Vosburgh (G1's)

[jms62]

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races?
Steve I can only comment on the result and not the attempt. And the result of 4 and 5 horse grade 1 fields is on a regular basis is truly pathetic.

Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

I don't have the answers and it is not my job to find the answers. I am simply Joe Public; a consumer of their product and 4 / 5 horse graded stakes on a regular basis in my opinion is a piss poor product. As customer it is of no interest to me the reasons why. In any other business those that fail to deliver the desired results are replaced by others who could or who you think could. Eventually you find someone who does or your business fails.

And it must be just you that feels like because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah

I stand corrected, I guess its the 4 horse fields that are Ground Hog Day to me.

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they
are losing customers. Still love the show.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they are losing customers. Still love the show.

Who's being attacked? Why is any response that answers a critique over-dramatically interpreted as an 'attack'? I provided my response and it was written without rancor.

Frankly, I don't get the complaint about 'the product'. The 'product' has been great, really, all year. Are fields stretched thin these weeks with Oak Tree, Belmont, Turfway and then Keeneland stacked up on top of each other? Yeah. Read Crist's piece about this from last weekend.

There aren't enough top horses to fill every stake.. And people have selective memories if they think every stake historically had overflow fields 10, 20, 40 and 75 years ago. They didn't. As a snapshot, Kelso was in fields of 8, 7, 6, 4 and 6 when he won his 5 straight Gold Cups in the 60's.

There are too many stakes that are similarly conditioned that are run near each other that siphon the horses, and the landscape has changed so that a place like Presque Isle Downs is a legitimate venue to run your horse if you're considering a Breeders' Cup try this year.

Why does the $750k Cotillion have to be run this week? Why shouldn't those 3yo fillies be facing off against elders already in a race like the Beldame the way Quality Road and Summer Bird are facing elders in the JCGC? (How about running the Cotillion on the Pennsylvania Derby card? It gets a little close to the Alabama, but you get the idea..)

What's really more accurate about the business of racing, is that it's a game where the customers are rarely if ever satisfied, and are constantly searching for things about which to complain. Revel in the next of a series of weekends of generally outstanding racing, instead of focusing on less than ideal circumstances of things that are hard to control in the environment as it currently exists.

The Beldame, at the last second, surprisingly lost a 6th horse that made it a very good race. As for the Vosburgh, it's a great race with the 5 it got. Generally, small stake fields are indicators of horses present that are standouts... Like Fabulous Strike, Go Go Shoot and Munnings. Get a copy of Champions and look at the field sizes of some of the famous historic races over the years. It will be an eye-opener.

[GBBob]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by GBBob

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

Don't get me wrong Bob...not complaining. Hell, I think it's great, because as you and I both know, there will be idiots that bet money on him. The more dumb money in the pools, the better

I just think it's sad that the owners ego gets on the way of the horse being a legitimate overnight stakes or maybe GIII horse.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

yes, there is. it just proves the adage that you can't please everyone.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by GBBob

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

[ateamstupid]

Yikes. Some crow please. Never underestimate the Assman.

[Sightseek]

Good race...at least what we could see of it.

[NTamm1215]

Shouldn't have underestimated the Assmagic.

Score one for Fats and Gander.

NT

[jms62]

Originally Posted by GBBob

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

Classic thats why they line em up....

[jms62]

From a chronic complainer... I like the way the industry is delaying these post times so we can see all the graded stakes today. Or maybe it is simply a random occurrence

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by jms62

From a chronic complainer... I like the way the industry is delaying these post times so we can see all the graded stakes today. Or maybe it is simply a random occurrence

I agree, but more difficult is defining "the industry."

[Travis Stone]

Two very good 3-year-olds... Summer Bird a notch better than Quality Road at 10 furlongs, but both are talented.

[philcski]

Summer Bird is awesome. How could anyone not like this horse??? 8 career starts, and he's won the three biggest races in NY. That's near impossible.

[jms62]

Maybe the phrase Instead of the blind and idol claim rubbed me the wrong way. Tommorows graded stakes entries by betting interests. I rest my case that NYRA is simply not getting it done.
5:00 TDN(8) Ohio Derby (13)
5:15 HOO(11) Indiana Derby (12)
5:14 HAW(7) Hawthorne Gold Cup (11)
6:12 HAW(9) Robert F. Carey (9)
5:09 BEL(9) Joe Hirsch (7)
5:43 BEL(10) Jockey Cup Gold (7)
4:16 PHA(10) Fitz Dixion (6)
4:35 BEL(8) Flower Bowl (6)
3:59 BEL(7) Vosburgh (5)
3:23 BEL(6) Beldame (4)

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

5:00 TDN(8) Ohio Derby (13)
5:15 HOO(11) Indiana Derby (12)

These two do share 6 cross-entrants.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Kasept

These two do share 6 cross-entrants.

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

[jms62]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

And your association with NYRA is ? Give me those averages but exclude Saratoga.
BY Dirt / Turf (Exclude MTO's)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

And your association with NYRA is ? Give me those averages but exclude Saratoga.
BY Dirt / Turf (Exclude MTO's)

Why do I have to be associated with NYRA to think you're a chronic over-reactor whose opinion in this case is not substantiated on fact?

I am more than anything, like just about everyone here, a fan and tomorrow I'm going to watch some of the best horses in training participate. I'll take a day full of horses like Fabulous Strike, Munnings, Music Note, Gio Ponti, Grand Couturier, Macho Again, Summer Bird, and Quality Road over what is due to be a stirring stretch battle between Sumo and Misremembered or Jonesboro and Stonehouse.

NT

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

Yeah... I was starting to write a much fuller response but I'm not going to. The only race that fits the discussion is the Cotillion which could have contributed meaningfully to the Beldame. But scheduling issues are a topic for the Graded Stake Committee and Racing Secretaries Meetings to hash out. Again... everyone should read Crist's piece on this subject.

The collection of nice horses at HAW tomorrow are meaningless to Grade 1 field conversation. The Carey runners are horses that can't go in the Gr. I Shadwell Mile at KEE, and the HAW Gold Cup horses aren't good enough for the JCGC.