SOLD! Remington (Chickasaws), Thistle (Harrah's) sales OK'd

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...oweEAD9ANULBG0

WILMINGTON, Del. — A Delaware bankruptcy judge on Tuesday approved the sale of two of Magna Entertainment Corp.'s horse racing tracks — Thistledown in Ohio and Remington Park in Oklahoma City — for a combined total of almost $170 million.

Judge Mary Walrath approved the results of a spirited auction on Monday that ended with a winning bid of $89.5 million for the Thistledown track near Cleveland from Harrah's Operating Co., a wholly owned subsidiary of Nevada-based casino giant Harrah's Entertainment Inc.

Shiek Mo? he bought everything else?

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Shiek Mo? he bought everything else?

A middle eastern owned track in the United States would be the revival for horse racing

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

A middle eastern owned track in the United States would be the revival for horse racing

A new bizarre suggestion... Why would a Middle Eastern-owned track specifically trip a "revival for racing"?

And what exactly is a "revival for racing"? If players and fans just recognized the game as it is currently as more than good enough for our enjoyment, the ridiculous assertion that racing 'needs' reviving would disappear.

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

[Gate Dancer]

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

Amen to this part of the quote...............I have never ceased to be amazed by the lack of understanding of this game by non-horse gamblers. To think that you would be satisfied by playing a slot machine or a roll of the dice over trying to decipher the mystery of an individual horserace is ridiculous to me. You at least have the opportunity to make an informed decision in every situation rather than blind luck being your salvation. It takes hard work and diligence to find that nugget of gold in this game but nothing is more satifying. This has been a nice year for the game with some incredibly distinguished performers and performances. I understand the push to get more people involved with various promotions etc., but there is just no way certain segments of the population will ever embrace this sport.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A new bizarre suggestion... Why would a Middle Eastern-owned track specifically trip a "revival for racing"?

And what exactly is a "revival for racing"? If players and fans just recognized the game as it is currently as more than good enough for our enjoyment, the ridiculous assertion that racing 'needs' reviving would disappear.

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

I really dont think that is a bizzare suggestion. If they can attract thousands of new spectators to thier new Meydan track in Dubai, then we can see what they can produce in the United States. People complain about short fields and crappy horses right? Why do owners/trainers send thier horses mid way around the world to compete in the Desert when easily those type of horses could be racing in the United States? Look how watered down the Big Cap has been in recent years. You cant deny how succesfull the Dubai World Cup has been for them.

As a gambler myself, I definetley want new fans to enter the game. why? I want dead money in the pool. 5 to 1, 6 to 1, shots today could easily be twice that if there are more dead money in the pool. I want people betting horses based on the name, color

To suggest for people to recognize the sport as it is is not that easy for the common folk to inhale. Why? Its hard to promote the sport when thier are way too many toilet tracks around the country. Quality of racing is poor and there is nothing interesting about betting or watching crap horses at crap tracks unless you are a degenerate gambler. There are 100s of race tracks and only 5-10 are worth going to or betting on. IMPROVE THE PRODUCT!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I really dont think that is a bizzare suggestion. If they can attract thousands of new spectators to thier new Meydan track in Dubai, then we can see what they can produce in the United States. People complain about short fields and crappy horses right? Why do owners/trainers send thier horses mid way around the world to compete in the Desert when easily those type of horses could be racing in the United States? Look how watered down the Big Cap has been in recent years. You cant deny how succesfull the Dubai World Cup has been for them.

As a gambler myself, I definetley want new fans to enter the game. why? I want dead money in the pool. 5 to 1, 6 to 1, shots today could easily be twice that if there are more dead money in the pool. I want people betting horses based on the name, color

To suggest for people to recognize the sport as it is is not that easy for the common folk to inhale. Why? Its hard to promote the sport when thier are way too many toilet tracks around the country. Quality of racing is poor and there is nothing interesting about betting or watching crap horses at crap tracks unless you are a degenerate gambler. There are 100s of race tracks and only 5-10 are worth going to or betting on. IMPROVE THE PRODUCT!

Think of the promotional possibilities?
Del Mar Burka Day!
Monmouth Prayer Rug day!
The Keeneland 100 Virgin's giveaway!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Think of the promotional possibilities?
Del Mar Burka Day!
Monmouth Prayer Rug day!
The Keeneland 100 Virgin's giveaway!

100 virgins? Over my dead camel. 72 is plenty.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

100 virgins? Over my dead camel. 72 is plenty.

I was thinking 10 a race. There may not be 100 in Lexington though.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I really dont think that is a bizzare suggestion. If they can attract thousands of new spectators to thier new Meydan track in Dubai, then we can see what they can produce in the United States. People complain about short fields and crappy horses right? Why do owners/trainers send thier horses mid way around the world to compete in the Desert when easily those type of horses could be racing in the United States? Look how watered down the Big Cap has been in recent years. You cant deny how succesfull the Dubai World Cup has been for them.

As a gambler myself, I definetley want new fans to enter the game. why? I want dead money in the pool. 5 to 1, 6 to 1, shots today could easily be twice that if there are more dead money in the pool. I want people betting horses based on the name, color

To suggest for people to recognize the sport as it is is not that easy for the common folk to inhale. Why? Its hard to promote the sport when thier are way too many toilet tracks around the country. Quality of racing is poor and there is nothing interesting about betting or watching crap horses at crap tracks unless you are a degenerate gambler. There are 100s of race tracks and only 5-10 are worth going to or betting on. IMPROVE THE PRODUCT!

The Dubai World Cup is run by the ruling family for the ruling family's amusement. Is there serious competition for the entertainment dollar in Dubai? The Carnival runs for a handful of weeks one and two nights a week. They aren't luring spectators with clever marketing. And horsemen/owners come from around the world because of the purses. Middle-Easten ownership of North American tracks isn't going to magically transform the venues into hotbeds.

If you want to stick to 'better product' as a line of reasoning, that's cool. Many agree with you there. Less racing, with fuller fields of more competitive runners, is a definite formula for improved racing and renewed or wider player interest. But the last statement about '100's of tracks' and 'only 5-10 worth going to or betting on' is just wrong. There aren't 100's of tracks and even the "worst" track out there can likely have a fun atmosphere and great race day every once in a while.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Kasept

They aren't luring spectators with clever marketing.

Actually, Steve, they do. The Dubai Racing Club gives away money to the public through handicapping contests. Each night of racing, a certain amount of money is given away to those who pick the most winners in pick six or pick seven competitions, and also through several twin tricasts - where participants must select the winning trifecta in two consecutive races.

On Dubai World Cup night, the pick seven was not hit, but quite a few Pakistanis had 5 of 7 and took home a decent prize of several thousand dollars each. 4 of 7 paid as well. It is not against the law to offer a prize in this sense as long as the player is not staking anything. Entry forms are at the entrance points to the course, for which admission is also free (includes Dubai World Cup night too) - there is always a free public enclosure on course.

Overall, it increases interest and attendance in the sport considering that handicapping acumen can win you money...for nothing, essentially. Not a bad marketing tool to get people to care.

All that being said, I agree that there is no way interests from Dubai or similar would ever purchase an American track with pari-mutuel wagering.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Actually, Steve, they do. The Dubai Racing Club gives away money to the public through handicapping contests. Each night of racing, a certain amount of money is given away to those who pick the most winners in pick six or pick seven competitions, and also through several twin tricasts - where participants must select the winning trifecta in two consecutive races.

On Dubai World Cup night, the pick seven was not hit, but quite a few Pakistanis had 5 of 7 and took home a decent prize of several thousand dollars each. 4 of 7 paid as well. It is not against the law to offer a prize in this sense as long as the player is not staking anything. Entry forms are at the entrance points to the course, for which admission is also free (includes Dubai World Cup night too) - there is always a free public enclosure on course.

Overall, it increases interest and attendance in the sport considering that handicapping acumen can win you money...for nothing, essentially. Not a bad marketing tool to get people to care.

All that being said, I agree that there is no way interests from Dubai or similar would ever purchase an American track with pari-mutuel wagering.

Got it Pat... They run million dollar cards one and two nights a week over a two month period, maybe a dozen race days total, and the people show up for the free handicapping contest. That's what's filling the stands. No doubt.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Dubai World Cup is run by the ruling family for the ruling family's amusement. Is there serious competition for the entertainment dollar in Dubai? The Carnival runs for a handful of weeks one and two nights a week. They aren't luring spectators with clever marketing. And horsemen/owners come from around the world because of the purses. Middle-Easten ownership of North American tracks isn't going to magically transform the venues into hotbeds.

If you want to stick to 'better product' as a line of reasoning, that's cool. Many agree with you there. Less racing, with fuller fields of more competitive runners, is a definite formula for improved racing and renewed or wider player interest. But the last statement about '100's of tracks' and 'only 5-10 worth going to or betting on' is just wrong. There aren't 100's of tracks and even the "worst" track out there can likely have a fun atmosphere and great race day every once in a while.

Dubai World Cup will only get bigger and better with the introduction of thier new Meydan Track. Do you realize that people at Nad Al Sheba who come to the track can not bet on the races?? Yet thousands and thousands come to watch. That is unheard of in the United States. Its not like the middle east is rich in horse racing tradition as compared to U.S. and Europe.

There is a reason MLB, NBA, and NFL dont set-up teams in small towns - Why? there is no market. Why does horse racing build tracks out in BFE?? There is a reason why your two biggest Racing venues are in New York and Los Angeles. No coincidence.

The "dont-care" approach is why horse racing is losing fans.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Dubai World Cup will only get bigger and better with the introduction of thier new Meydan Track. Do you realize that people at Nad Al Sheba who come to the track can not bet on the races?? Yet thousands and thousands come to watch. That is unheard of in the United States. Its not like the middle east is rich in horse racing tradition as compared to U.S. and Europe.

There is a reason MLB, NBA, and NFL dont set-up teams in small towns - Why? there is no market. Why does horse racing build tracks out in BFE?? There is a reason why your two biggest Racing venues are in New York and Los Angeles. No coincidence.

The "dont-care" approach is why horse racing is losing fans.

Well, let's see...where to go with this? Suffolk Downs is in metro Boston, easily accessible by public transportation, yet does not do well and does not have a good product. Boston is not BFE, as you say. Woodbine, which is a pain to get to via Toronto metro, and is tough to get to in Toronto traffic, and is in an obscure part of town, miles outside the city has a good product, and does well. Location doesn't have a lot to do with it. If you have a good product, run cards wisely, and have a good business acumen you can do well.

Also, this whole stuff about Dubai, I'm going to guess Shekih Mo build his new palace with his own dime. What track owner you know could do the same? None. They'd all ask for public funding to foot part of the bill. Whole different dynamic. When your ruling family has unlimited sums of money you do as you please. Racing cannot answer to the American taxpayer.

When people get it out of their mind that racing needs a darling slot on ESPN, that they need a Triple Crown winner, that every track should be able to attract 30,000 a card then it will be better off. The NHL has ruined it's product and it's standing by trying to become a mainstream sport, so to speak, in getting away from it's niche status. Sure, some places can support hockey that hadn't before, like Dallas, North Carolina, etc. Mostly because they have successful, well run franchises. But, in the process, the game was moved out of Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hartford, Minnesota (it's back), and gone to die in Miami, Phoenix, and Atlanta.

Stick to your "less is more" stance, the whole revival thing is just garbage.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Dubai World Cup will only get bigger and better with the introduction of thier new Meydan Track. Do you realize that people at Nad Al Sheba who come to the track can not bet on the races?? Yet thousands and thousands come to watch. That is unheard of in the United States. Its not like the middle east is rich in horse racing tradition as compared to U.S. and Europe.

There is a reason MLB, NBA, and NFL dont set-up teams in small towns - Why? there is no market. Why does horse racing build tracks out in BFE?? There is a reason why your two biggest Racing venues are in New York and Los Angeles. No coincidence.

The "dont-care" approach is why horse racing is losing fans.

Oh boy. Where to start...

Really? They can't bet in Dubai? You're kidding... Who knew?

And "thousands and thousands come"... Unheard of in the United States! Guess you haven't been to a Kentucky Oaks/Derby... A Breeders' Cup... A Santa Anita Derby or Handicap Day... Or Smarty Jones' Belmont... Or Oaklawn... Or Saratoga...

The Middle East isn't rich in horse racing tradition... That's a revelation! Out of curiousity, those things that are called Arabians... Where did they come from exactly?

Racetracks are in every corner of the United States because it's America's original and oldest sport, and the far flung venues grew out of the original race gatherings that began in the 1800's.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A new bizarre suggestion... Why would a Middle Eastern-owned track specifically trip a "revival for racing"?

And what exactly is a "revival for racing"? If players and fans just recognized the game as it is currently as more than good enough for our enjoyment, the ridiculous assertion that racing 'needs' reviving would disappear.

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

There certainly is a lot of vapidity lately

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A new bizarre suggestion... Why would a Middle Eastern-owned track specifically trip a "revival for racing"?

And what exactly is a "revival for racing"? If players and fans just recognized the game as it is currently as more than good enough for our enjoyment, the ridiculous assertion that racing 'needs' reviving would disappear.

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A new bizarre suggestion... Why would a Middle Eastern-owned track specifically trip a "revival for racing"?

And what exactly is a "revival for racing"? If players and fans just recognized the game as it is currently as more than good enough for our enjoyment, the ridiculous assertion that racing 'needs' reviving would disappear.

Stop caring that a certain segment of the populace isn't interested in the game. What validation does anyone need from people too vapid to understand racing or too ignorant to take up handicapping/wagering as a pastime?

I'm not trying to challenge anyone's opinion here (you guys have all forgotten more about horse racing than I'll probably ever know), but wouldn't gaining interest and fans of the sport do a lot to solve most of racing's problems we hear about on a daily basis on your show? I'm not calling you a doomsayer by any stretch of the imagination -- you're usually pretty positive. But you also do a good job of trying to cover every aspect of the sport, and every aspect of the sport seems to have seen better days economically.

Wouldn't more people interested in racing equal more money wagered, more handle, and more attendance, thus resulting in bigger purses, bigger commissions, and more Carolina BBQ being eaten? And then wouldn't this interest bring in new money to the auctions, upping the value of horses, which would help the breeders, etc., etc. I can't think of one segment of racing that would do worse financially if more people suddenly became interested.

Even from a handicappers standpoint, wouldn't new fans' money equal bigger fields and pools? Good handicappers like yourself could start to get paid like it was the 1950s all over again.

I personally root for the popularity of the sport for these reasons -- although I must admit, a little validation from my vapid and ignorant non-horse racing fan friends would also be sweet...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dean smith

I'm not trying to challenge anyone's opinion here (you guys have all forgotten more about horse racing than I'll probably ever know), but wouldn't gaining interest and fans of the sport do a lot to solve most of racing's problems we hear about on a daily basis on your show? I'm not calling you a doomsayer by any stretch of the imagination -- you're usually pretty positive. But you also do a good job of trying to cover every aspect of the sport, and every aspect of the sport seems to have seen better days economically.

Wouldn't more people interested in racing equal more money wagered, more handle, and more attendance, thus resulting in bigger purses, bigger commissions, and more Carolina BBQ being eaten? And then wouldn't this interest bring in new money to the auctions, upping the value of horses, which would help the breeders, etc., etc. I can't think of one segment of racing that would do worse financially if more people suddenly became interested.

Even from a handicappers standpoint, wouldn't new fans' money equal bigger fields and pools? Good handicappers like yourself could start to get paid like it was the 1950s all over again.

I personally root for the popularity of the sport for these reasons -- although I must admit, a little validation from my vapid and ignorant non-horse racing fan friends would also be sweet...

Unfortunately Fans does not equal Bettors. We really need more people interested in betting on racing than following racing. On another note there is no way to accurately compare racing in Dubai and America. The truth is that virtually all of their "ideas" are taken from others.

[NTamm1215]

This article in the Houston Chronicle spells out how Global Gaming's purchase of Lone Star puts them on the opposite side of the gambling debate from where they were just six months ago.

"Indian gaming may be about to gain a major legal toehold in Texas.

The state over the past decade has been successful in closing casinos run by the Tiguas of El Paso and the Alabama-Coushatta of Livingston, and gambling at a tiny casino run by the Kickapoo Traditional Tribe in Eagle Pass has been limited.

Now, the Chickasaw Nation of Oklahoma is poised to take possession of an existing horse racing track in Grand Prairie. The tribe runs one of the biggest Indian casinos in the United States, just across the Texas border.

Gambling proponents believe the tribe may tip the balance to legalizing casinos across Texas.

“The Chickasaw Nation has very successful casinos,” said Jack Pratt, chairman of the Texas Gaming Association. “They certainly didn't buy this track just to run the ponies.”

A Chickasaw-owned company, Global Gaming Solutions LSP, is expected to buy Lone Star Park next month as part of a bankruptcy settlement involving the track's majority owner, Magna Entertainment Corp. of Canada.

The most dramatic change Chickasaw ownership of Lone Star is likely to bring to the casino debate in Texas is to alter the dynamics of the fight in the Legislature to amend the state Constitution to allow casino gambling.

The Chickasaw Nation has put more than $362,070 into state political races since 2006. But because of its Winstar Casino on the Texas border, the Chickasaws opposed expanded Texas gambling. With the purchase of Lone Star, the tribe likely will support casino-style gambling — at least at race tracks.

A Global Gaming spokeswoman said the company will support whatever horse owners at the track believe will make Lone Star successful.

A foot in both camps

One of the biggest stumbling blocks to passing casino legislation in recent years has been infighting between track owners and casino owners. Horse and dog track owners have wanted a law that allows slot machines at tracks but no destination resort casinos. The casino industry has wanted both. Now, there will be a major horse track owner with a foot in both camps.

“Track owners have been cross-wired with the commercial casino owners,” said Pratt. “The track owners have been trying to get a monopoly.”

Mike Lavigne, a spokesman for Texans for Economic Development, an association of track owners that want slot machines at tracks, said his group sees the Chickasaw move as a positive because the tribe in the past has not supported expanded gambling, but now likely will.

Chickasaw ownership of the track also could be significant under the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. The tribe could enter into a compact with the governor to cover other forms of gambling allowed under state law.

The Seminole Tribe of Florida is negotiating such a compact with state officials. The tribe there used state-sanctioned slot machines in one county to justify operating their own casinos.

Gov. Rick Perry rebuffed a similar effort by the Kickapoo because he did not want to expand the “footprint” of gambling in Texas. But Perry in 2004 favored an effort to allow slot machines at race tracks and to give the Texas tribes a limited ability to operate casinos.

The campaign of Perry's main Republican opponent, U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, said she is opposed to casino gambling. Democrat Tom Schieffer is against expanded gambling, while Kinky Friedman supports casinos, and Hank Gilbert wants voters to decide on a constitutional amendment to legalize casinos.

An unlikely approach

The third, and least likely path, would be for the Chickasaw to use the federal land-to-trust process. The process lets tribes purchase land and then have it put into a federal trust by the Department of Interior, allowing the tribe to have sovereign powers over the property.

Senators in California, Arizona and Nevada are fighting to block tribes in those states from using the process to build casinos.

Chickasaw spokeswoman Koch said the land-to-trust process will not work at Lone Star Park because the business subsidiary, Global Gaming, will own the track, not the tribe.

Rob Kohler, an anti-gambling advocate with the Christian Life Commission of the Baptist General Convention, said anything the Chickasaw Nation may do to bring Lone Star Park under the Indian gaming act has the potential to open up all of Texas to Indian gaming.

“The doors fall off the barn,” he said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6634020.html

NT

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Unfortunately Fans does not equal Bettors. We really need more people interested in betting on racing than following racing. On another note there is no way to accurately compare racing in Dubai and America. The truth is that virtually all of their "ideas" are taken from others.

Maybe I live in some kind of degenerate fantasy land, but you can't possibly think that new fans of racing won't bet as well. Without the betting, there is no interest. It's like when Teri Garr asked, "why can't you just all enjoy the races and not bet on them?" (or something like that) and everybody just laughed. That's funny because it's true. Who would do that?