Cash for Clunkers Success

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You are right, the correct phrase is 75% of those that believe in death panels get their news from Fox News.

Thanks

Please show me where the poll states that. I could't find it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Please show me where the poll states that. I could't find it.

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

It's the interpretation of the bill. No there will be no panel deciding whether grandma dies or lives but there will surely be panels who decide what Dr.'s and hospitals you can go to and how often that for some will be a death sentence.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

It's the interpretation of the bill. No there will be no panel deciding whether grandma dies or lives but there will surely be panels who decide what Dr.'s and hospitals you can go to and how often that for some will be a death sentence.

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

I will agree it does happen now but just as I would trust UPS or FedEx way more than the Post Office with something important/expensive I trust private insurance and for that matter private Dr.'s more than a government panel with decisions that are pretty important....

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

You should know that private plans give the patients a hellova lot more options than HMO or Medicare!

[dalakhani]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090826/...h_for_clunkers

Some numbers on cash for clunkers

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090826/...h_for_clunkers

Some numbers on cash for clunkers

They left out all the GREEN detals of the program! The fact the program saved a half of a day per year in fuel consumption (Yea Scuds we really stuck it to those greedy Arabs w/this one) and 2 hrs per year of green house gases to start in 2 and a half years and last 7 and 1/2 years after. Almost a whole day of emission per TEN years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090826/...h_for_clunkers

Some numbers on cash for clunkers

An estimated 42,000 jobs will be created or saved during the second half of the year, the White House said.

They just continue to make things up...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You should know that private plans give the patients a hellova lot more options than HMO or Medicare!

Sometimes.

The point is, first, that patients have options.

Secondly, those options depends upon the private plan you purchase. There are catastrophic only plans, limited plans, companies that don't write in certain states, etc. As you age, or if you develop any medical problems, your options become more and more limited. If you lose or quit your job, you do have the opportunity to purchase (continue) your insurance under COBRA, but good luck on paying for that, as the insurance company will now charge you as an individual for what your boss was paying for in a discounted group. If you cross state lines, you can rarely take your insurance with you - thus you start from scratch. At this point, the new insurer (even if the same "company") can bar you from coverage for anything you've previously made a claim on, or is an ongoing medical problem.

That's how the insurance companies save money. Although rates are estimated to rise 10% this year, regardless of healthcare reform.

It also depends upon the insurance company agreeing to honor the contract it makes with you. You see, it's an unregulated industry, thus, even if you have an expensive, very inclusive plan, the insurance company can choose to alter that plan at their whim. And you have no recourse.

They can drop you if you make a claim, refuse to cover you for things in your policy, rescind your policy, put cap limits on an illness, find something pre-existing in your past history to disallow current treatment (the "famous" one being talked about now in the debate is the person who was denied treatment for malignant melanoma - skin cancer - as they had had acne with treatment in their past)

Health care reform is all about increasing the options people seeking healthcare have.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sometimes.

The point is, first, that patients have options.

Secondly, those options depends upon the private plan you purchase. There are catastrophic only plans, limited plans, companies that don't write in certain states, etc. As you age, or if you develop any medical problems, your options become more and more limited. If you lose or quit your job, you do have the opportunity to purchase (continue) your insurance under COBRA, but good luck on paying for that, as the insurance company will now charge you as an individual for what your boss was paying for in a discounted group. If you cross state lines, you can rarely take your insurance with you - thus you start from scratch. At this point, the new insurer (even if the same "company") can bar you from coverage for anything you've previously made a claim on, or is an ongoing medical problem.

That's how the insurance companies save money. Although rates are estimated to rise 10% this year, regardless of healthcare reform.

It also depends upon the insurance company agreeing to honor the contract it makes with you. You see, it's an unregulated industry, thus, even if you have an expensive, very inclusive plan, the insurance company can choose to alter that plan at their whim. And you have no recourse.

They can drop you if you make a claim, refuse to cover you for things in your policy, rescind your policy, put cap limits on an illness, find something pre-existing in your past history to disallow current treatment (the "famous" one being talked about now in the debate is the person who was denied treatment for malignant melanoma - skin cancer - as they had had acne with treatment in their past)

Health care reform is all about increasing the options people seeking healthcare have.

This is what lawyers are good for!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

It is much more troubling to me when the Attorney General says things that are absolutely, positively not true.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...019115348.html


Its scary that 53% of Americans thought Obama would be the answer. That wont happen again.



And Obama brought the Birth Certificate thing on himself by refusing to allow the public to see it. It isnt like it is nude photos or something...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is much more troubling to me when the Attorney General says things that are absolutely, positively not true.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...019115348.html


Its scary that 53% of Americans thought Obama would be the answer. That wont happen again.



And Obama brought the Birth Certificate thing on himself by refusing to allow the public to see it. It isnt like it is nude photos or something...

Yeah, I don't know about Holder. We'll see.

Obama put his birth certificate out there over a year ago during the campaign. It's on the internet.

Here: for the few remaining conspiracy theorists <vbg>

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp