8/12-14 (SAR): Hall of Fame (G2); Cab Calloway, Statue/Liberty (NYB)

[Scav]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Did you watch the races on Million Day?
You are acting like he had a bad trip.

So being 3 wide on both turns without cover is a good trip??

Keep on betting into the Arlington pools for me please....

You say speed was good, but speed was good on a completely different course, they have two courses, an inner and the million course on Million Day. The reason speed did so well on the earlier card was because they were on the inner, which is like Fairplex plus turf....

[VOL JACK]

So I guess Dynaforce won because she is just better than Pure Clan.

[Bobby Fischer]

set up well for take the points and blackbear island

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

So I guess Dynaforce won because she is just better than Pure Clan.

I think Dynaforce is better. I dont think Pure Clan has ever run a race as good as Dynaforces Flower Bowl last year, or the Beverly D last week.
Pure Clan is decent at best IMO. Dynaforce might not be great, but is clearly more accomplished.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think Dynaforce is better. I dont think Pure Clan has ever run a race as good as Dynaforces Flower Bowl last year, or the Beverly D last week.
Pure Clan is decent at best IMO. Dynaforce might not be great, but is clearly more accomplished.

I disagree and happen to think Pure Clan is better. PC has proven she does not need certain turf conditions to be at her best and the race dynamics played out strongly in Dynaforce's favor last year.

What was so great about Dynaforce's Flower Bowl last year? How she waltzed along on a bog and kicked away late? That turf course was as ridiculous as any that's been run on in America over the last 5 years save the '07 BC.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I disagree and happen to think Pure Clan is better. PC has proven she does not need certain turf conditions to be at her best and the race dynamics played out strongly in Dynaforce's favor last year.

What was so great about Dynaforce's Flower Bowl last year? How she waltzed along on a bog and kicked away late? That turf course was as ridiculous as any that's been run on in America over the last 5 years save the '07 BC.

NT

Kent took advantage of the way the course was playing at AP and the dynamics of the race. He moved too soon and, on any other day at AP (and any other fair course), PC CRUSHES her. But you need to give him credit, as he correctly read the situation. Ramon did the same thing with GIO: he moved him prematurely but got away with it on that day at that course. Of course, GIO is much better, relatively, than Dynaforce.

These races are both interesting from the 'got the jump on them' tripping perspective. Here's a RARE case where this was true and proved to be an advantage. The problem, of course, is that there are many more cases where getting the jump on them means getting the worst of it. That this distinction causes so many problems of interpretation for so many, continues to confuse the **** out of me.

Definitely agree with the 2nd part as well.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Kent took advantage of the way the course was playing at AP and the dynamics of the race. He moved too soon and, on any other day at AP (and any other fair course), PC CRUSHES her. But you need to give him credit, as he correctly read the situation. Ramon did the same thing with GIO: he moved him prematurely but got away with it on that day at that course. Of course, GIO is much better, relatively, than Dynaforce.

These races are both interesting from the 'got the jump on them' tripping perspective. Here's a RARE case where this was true and proved to be an advantage. The problem, of course, is that there are many more cases where getting the jump on them means getting the worst of it. That this distinction causes so many problems of interpretation for so many, continues to confuse the **** out of me.

Definitely agree with the 2nd part as well.

Thank You!!

[smartyalex]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think Dynaforce is better. I dont think Pure Clan has ever run a race as good as Dynaforces Flower Bowl last year, or the Beverly D last week.
Pure Clan is decent at best IMO. Dynaforce might not be great, but is clearly more accomplished.

Her two wins in the states came over the yielding turf. She's never really showed much on a firm course. However, seems to be much the best on an off track. As far as her being more "accomplished" than PC......poppycock!

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by smartyalex

Her two wins in the states came over the yielding turf. She's never really showed much on a firm course. However, seems to be much the best on an off track. As far as her being more "accomplished" than PC......poppycock!

Ok, Pure Clan has one Grade 1 win, with the dream trip of the century. Dynaforce has 2, and a very close second in another. That very close second also came to champion Forever Together.
Pure Clan has a close second also, but that came in a restricted race for 3 yr olds and the horse who beat her is a total plodder IMO. Actually both of Pure Clans Grade 1 runs were restricted races. When Pure Clan began to face her elders she was crushed in the BC, Dynaforce finished ahead of her, although Dynaforce did not run well. She then lost to Acoma, who is ok and beat Dynaforce. Heads up Dynaforce has a 2-1 advantage.
Dynaforce was a bit off form and people began to think she was finished, I think the stats say Dynaforce is better.
Also I know a lot of people dont care about turf beyers, but Dynaforce has ran over a 100 4 times now. Pure Clan has never ran better then a 96 on any type of turf. I would also say her 96 is a bit suspect, the horses who ran second and third that day were 18-1 and 14-1 and have not been very good after.
One last point, I think its pretty safe to say the best filly Pure Clan has ever beat on turf is Dynaforce....
Dynaforce beat Mauralakana, who was really good last year. She also finished ahead of 8 fillies in The Diana last year, Formulator does not go back that far, but I am sure the competition was better then what Pure Clan has faced.

[Bobby Fischer]

neither Pure Clan or Dynaforce looked like they could win that race at Arlington. Dynaforce was there for any player who was sharp to surface and the bias to include her as one of several in that race for a pick3. However, not really a smart pick based on form alone.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

neither Pure Clan or Dynaforce looked like they could win that race at Arlington. Dynaforce was there for any player who was sharp to surface and the bias to include her as one of several in that race for a pick3. However, not really a smart pick based on form alone.

Form ? 3rd start off the bench has always been a good angle for many trainers. When I touted her before the race because of the expected rain, people said the rain would help everyone, that they all liked a little give.

[Bobby Fischer]

side note- i am surprised that Arlington is "only" 1,049 feet from last turn to finish line per DRF. It's a track that gives you the impression of a very long stretch. It is a very nice overall turf course though.

[smartyalex]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ok, Pure Clan has one Grade 1 win, with the dream trip of the century. Dynaforce has 2, and a very close second in another. That very close second also came to champion Forever Together.
Pure Clan has a close second also, but that came in a restricted race for 3 yr olds and the horse who beat her is a total plodder IMO. Actually both of Pure Clans Grade 1 runs were restricted races. When Pure Clan began to face her elders she was crushed in the BC, Dynaforce finished ahead of her, although Dynaforce did not run well. She then lost to Acoma, who is ok and beat Dynaforce. Heads up Dynaforce has a 2-1 advantage.
Dynaforce was a bit off form and people began to think she was finished, I think the stats say Dynaforce is better.
Also I know a lot of people dont care about turf beyers, but Dynaforce has ran over a 100 4 times now. Pure Clan has never ran better then a 96 on any type of turf. I would also say her 96 is a bit suspect, the horses who ran second and third that day were 18-1 and 14-1 and have not been very good after.
One last point, I think its pretty safe to say the best filly Pure Clan has ever beat on turf is Dynaforce....
Dynaforce beat Mauralakana, who was really good last year. She also finished ahead of 8 fillies in The Diana last year, Formulator does not go back that far, but I am sure the competition was better then what Pure Clan has faced.

you're correct, PC did lose by a neck to Acoma in her first start this year (off an eight month layoff). However.....not correct was Dynaforce running 100+ Beyers in four races (I think it's three, and two were on off tracks). She also posted 80+ in two of her three most recent firm goings. We could go back and forth with what's on paper. My point was that I think Dynaforce is better on the off track where as PC is better on the firm going....which in this division I assume most Trainers hope their F&M's get come race time.

[the_fat_man]

As far as I can tell, PC ran in two 'off' turf races: the Garden City, where she was probably best but didn't have a clear run; and the Beverly D, where she was the only horse in the race to run against the setup. From this we're concluding that she needs a firm course?

The distinction between the two, as I see it, is that Dynaforce needs a perfect trip to win, and PC has shown, on a number of occasions, that she can run against the setup --- which, in my opinion, makes her a better horse.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by smartyalex

you're correct, PC did lose by a neck to Acoma in her first start this year (off an eight month layoff). However.....not correct was Dynaforce running 100+ Beyers in four races (I think it's three, and two were on off tracks). She also posted 80+ in two of her three most recent firm goings. We could go back and forth with what's on paper. My point was that I think Dynaforce is better on the off track where as PC is better on the firm going....which in this division I assume most Trainers hope their F&M's get come race time.

She ran 3 up to the Beverly D, I looked those up on formulator. For some reasson I thought she ran a 101 in the Beverly D, so im sorry she has only ran 3. Her Beverly d was only a 97.... STILL 3 MORE 100'S THEN PC.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think Dynaforce is better. I dont think Pure Clan has ever run a race as good as Dynaforces Flower Bowl last year, or the Beverly D last week.
Pure Clan is decent at best IMO. Dynaforce might not be great, but is clearly more accomplished.

You need to finish this sentence with "when the grass is soft." It was listed as "good" but the times indicate that it was mcuh softer than that. Dynaforce is a force, on soft ground.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Linny

You need to finish this sentence with "when the grass is soft." It was listed as "good" but the times indicate that it was mcuh softer than that. Dynaforce is a force, on soft ground.

The head to head results and Grade 1 wins do not lie.