Rachel Alexandra (116 Beyer for Haskell)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I really think it would be best to have Rachel go in the Arc with Zenyatta.. Maybe they could share the plane ride? Chuck Pro Ride is not dirt perhaps you can explain why you want to see a dirt horse race on Pro Ride and not grass.. And since when is the turf classic not the the single most important grass race in America? I really think you are under estimating Rachel's potential on the turf and at 12f's..

Listen fred if you cant understand simple concepts like Ernie Paragallo doesnt give a damn about his horses or anyone else for that matter why would i expect you to understand why she should run in the Classic.

So far in this thread I have been told that RA running in the BC would be bad for the sport, that she shouldnt run in the classic if she did, that 6 yo slugs have been winning the classic, that positive press doesnt matter, that a 500k race at Calder in December would be better than the BC for Zenyatta and RA, that RA wouldnt draw more viewers to the BC telecast, and that owners dont care about money.




And supposedly I'm the one who doesn't get it.....

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen fred if you cant understand simple concepts like Ernie Paragallo doesnt give a damn about his horses or anyone else for that matter why would i expect you to understand why she should run in the Classic.

So far in this thread I have been told that RA running in the BC would be bad for the sport, that she shouldnt run in the classic if she did, that 6 yo slugs have been winning the classic, that positive press doesnt matter, that a 500k race at Calder in December would be better than the BC for Zenyatta and RA, that RA wouldnt draw more viewers to the BC telecast, and that owners dont care about money.




And supposedly I'm the one who doesn't get it.....

How does unestimating a persons insensitivy to his animals suggest that I can't understand the concept of were Rachel should run??

I never said she shouldn't run I repped that why would she run on a 3rd surface type that is suppose to equate to dirt but clearly doesn't. So you think that now its a good idea to expose the fringe viewer to Championship day on a third surface and market to them that Rachel should be just as good on this stuff they know nothing about. Ok this is brilliant stuff. People who are new to the game (fringe viewers) are going to tune in expecting a super dirt filly only to be baited and switched to a Poly race that clearly she will not be the same on. But the good news is we got them to watch and not understand the complexity of the situation or have them frustrated that she really is no big deal as some never was no name beats her. That should get them back.. What you don't see is the harm that you could do by hyping speed and greatness and only to have it bit you in the marketing face.

Look your a tad jealous, no you are a lot jealous. AS AM I.. I want a horse like Rachel, as you I want to call her my own. It's ok admitted you are frustrated as she is not yours and anything these folks do you will be scornful of..Its human nature I get it.

You know the Moss's while wonderful people in the game and truly charitable people by all accounts really are standing behind this BC Classic loyalty a bit to firmly for my palate. I think you can wag your I Hate Jess flag all you want the guy races his horses all ove ..The by product is fans get to see them and they try things that most other trainers wouldn't.

Trust me we all know if you owned/trained Rachel, and I hope you do get such a horse, that you would have had her racing against fillies on 4 weeks rest on dirt and or would have sold her to a Jess/Shiek type and basked in a big pay day.. I figure that is just the way things are for the folks who still have to keep some score.

Rachel doesn't need to run on Pro Ride to prove herself.. Look what are you going to moan about if she won the Classic on Pro Ride? Why Jess is breeding her on March 1 to Curlin or How could he not run her as a 4 year old? Please already the guy bought a great horse whatever he paid it doesn't matter he isn't keeping friggin score. He is living out the balance of his life exactly the way he wants becasue I guess he was a fcukin lucky guy or a great score keeper..Eitherway thank you Jess.. Thx for buying her and not letting hal wiggins run her against her own every 4 weeks till we all got bored to death. Thx for sending her to the Preakness where she kicked ass.. Thx for not sending her to the Belmont and having the good sense not to over extend her. Thx for a smart prep in a historic race..Thx for sending her to the Haskell and inviting all that is standing to come and try and catch my girl.. And finally thx for exposing NTRA and there ridiculous decision to force dirt horses to compete on a surface which is not there best on a what is suppose to be a proving ground for American Turf and dirt racing..

Maybe just maybe NTRA gets a clue and alters there incompetience immediately.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How does unestimating a persons insensitivy to his animals suggest that I can't understand the concept of were Rachel should run??

I never said she shouldn't run I repped that why would she run on a 3rd surface type that is suppose to equate to dirt but clearly doesn't. So you think that now its a good idea to expose the fringe viewer to Championship day on a third surface and market to them that Rachel should be just as good on this stuff they know nothing about. Ok this is brilliant stuff. People who are new to the game (fringe viewers) are going to tune in expecting a super dirt filly only to be baited and switched to a Poly race that clearly she will not be the same on. But the good news is we got them to watch and not understand the complexity of the situation or have them frustrated that she really is no big deal as some never was no name beats her. That should get them back.. What you don't see is the harm that you could do by hyping speed and greatness and only to have it bit you in the marketing face.

Look your a tad jealous, no you are a lot jealous. AS AM I.. I want a horse like Rachel, as you I want to call her my own. It's ok admitted you are frustrated as she is not yours and anything these folks do you will be scornful of..Its human nature I get it.

You know the Moss's while wonderful people in the game and truly charitable people by all accounts really are standing behind this BC Classic loyalty a bit to firmly for my palate. I think you can wag your I Hate Jess flag all you want the guy races his horses all ove ..The by product is fans get to see them and they try things that most other trainers wouldn't.

Trust me we all know if you owned/trained Rachel, and I hope you do get such a horse, that you would have had her racing against fillies on 4 weeks rest on dirt and or would have sold her to a Jess/Shiek type and basked in a big pay day.. I figure that is just the way things are for the folks who still have to keep some score.

Rachel doesn't need to run on Pro Ride to prove herself.. Look what are you going to moan about if she won the Classic on Pro Ride? Why Jess is breeding her on March 1 to Curlin or How could he not run her as a 4 year old? Please already the guy bought a great horse whatever he paid it doesn't matter he isn't keeping friggin score. He is living out the balance of his life exactly the way he wants becasue I guess he was a fcukin lucky guy or a great score keeper..Eitherway thank you Jess.. Thx for buying her and not letting hal wiggins run her against her own every 4 weeks till we all got bored to death. Thx for sending her to the Preakness where she kicked ass.. Thx for not sending her to the Belmont and having the good sense not to over extend her. Thx for a smart prep in a historic race..Thx for sending her to the Haskell and inviting all that is standing to come and try and catch my girl.. And finally thx for exposing NTRA and there ridiculous decision to force dirt horses to compete on a surface which is not there best on a what is suppose to be a proving ground for American Turf and dirt racing..

Maybe just maybe NTRA gets a clue and alters there incompetience immediately.

I never said she has to prove herself. I said if Jackson really was acting in the best interests of horseracing as he says he is he would run her in the BC. Too many of you believe for some reason that her not running is going to somehow make the powers that be suddenly wake up and do a 180 on the BC, synthetic surfaces, etc. I hate to tell you but it wont do a damn thing. But not running will make it a less than sucessful event simply because the horse everyone wants to see and would make the BC relevant on the national scene is sitting at home. Perhaps the cynics will enjoy that as it gives them more ammo but it isnt a positive.

And for your info the NTRA is a totally empty group with no authority or say in any of the matters so stop blaming them.



And Freddy, anyone who would defend Ernie paragallo on anything is forever suspect on any topic going forward.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I never said she has to prove herself. I said if Jackson really was acting in the best interests of horseracing as he says he is he would run her in the BC. Too many of you believe for some reason that her not running is going to somehow make the powers that be suddenly wake up and do a 180 on the BC, synthetic surfaces, etc. I hate to tell you but it wont do a damn thing. But not running will make it a less than sucessful event simply because the horse everyone wants to see and would make the BC relevant on the national scene is sitting at home. Perhaps the cynics will enjoy that as it gives them more ammo but it isnt a positive.

And for your info the NTRA is a totally empty group with no authority or say in any of the matters so stop blaming them.



And Freddy, anyone who would defend Ernie paragallo on anything is forever suspect on any topic going forward.

I think that not running her in the BC is acting in the best interests of racing. Awarding the BC two years in a row to SA and a synthetic track was in the best interests of California but not in the best interests of the sport as a whole. Perhaps by not only voicing his displeasure but by keeping the star attraction out, the powers that be will think twice about doing something this stupid again and that would be in the best interests of the sport.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think that not running her in the BC is acting in the best interests of racing. Awarding the BC two years in a row to SA and a synthetic track was in the best interests of California but not in the best interests of the sport as a whole. Perhaps by not only voicing his displeasure but by keeping the star attraction out, the powers that be will think twice about doing something this stupid again and that would be in the best interests of the sport.

I understand what you are saying but you are assuming that this will change anything. It wont. There is no doubt that the Breeders Cup board will make stupid mistakes again and the thing will be held at a synthetic track but there may not be another chance to showcase a RA, who is not only growing into a star attraction but a legitimate one.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

there may not be another chance to showcase a RA,

Showcase her as the horse who finishes a bad 4th of 7 in the Distaff - or a bad 11th of 14 in the Classic?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Showcase her as the horse who finishes a bad 4th of 7 in the Distaff - or a bad 11th of 14 in the Classic?

Assman has been doing very well on the AP poly 42 9 8 5

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand what you are saying but you are assuming that this will change anything. It wont. There is no doubt that the Breeders Cup board will make stupid mistakes again and the thing will be held at a synthetic track but there may not be another chance to showcase a RA, who is not only growing into a star attraction but a legitimate one.

I don't really have as big a problem with synthetic tracks as I do with the fact that the supposed championships are being held on them when the majority of our main track stars run primarily on dirt. The thing that I don't like is what the BC is trying to do, what they've publicly stated is their goal and that's trying to cater to the Europeans. Well, last year they achieved their goal and likely will again this year but it's going to be at the cost of some top American horses, in this case, the biggest star we have. I think that all of the people who want to see Rachel will know how to see her. I think the biggest difference of opinion you have with the rest of us is in how much extra viewership there would be if Rachel were to run. My opinion is that it wouldn't be a significant number and that an even less significant number would continue to tune in after that to see races that she's not in. It's sort of like with Tiger Woods. Before him, I didn't watch golf. Now, I do. Only when he's playing. When he missed the cut at the British Open, I didn't watch the weekend. When there's no Tiger, there's no me. And the ratings show that I'm not alone in this.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It's sort of like with Tiger Woods. Before him, I didn't watch golf. Now, I do. Only when he's playing. When he missed the cut at the British Open, I didn't watch the weekend. When there's no Tiger, there's no me. And the ratings show that I'm not alone in this.

The ratings for the Buick Open over the past weekend were up 167%... that's insane. Tiger has power. Stars have power. No stars = less power. It's pretty basic.

The debate whether or not Rachel Alexandra running in the Breeders' Cup is good/bad for horse racing is a moot point. No one in a million years can argue that Rachel Alexandra in the gate would have a negative impact on the success of the Breeders' Cup, whether you define success as viewers, fans on the rail, programs sold or handle dollars.

The bottom line in all of this is racing has created, through various evolutions of its racing calendar and schedule, a distorted and lopsided approach to promoting its racing on a daily/weekly basis, and in turn, has eroded the ability to market the basics of our game to the general public.

Back on point, the best thing for racing is Rachel Alexandra in the starting gate for the Classic. But the Classic is on synthetics, and right now, she's a superstar on dirt. So therefore the best thing for racing is not to have the Classic on synthetics, but unfortunately it is. So therefore the best thing... this is all a slippery slope.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand what you are saying but you are assuming that this will change anything. It wont. There is no doubt that the Breeders Cup board will make stupid mistakes again and the thing will be held at a synthetic track but there may not be another chance to showcase a RA, who is not only growing into a star attraction but a legitimate one.

i don't know that jess is trying to change anything, he just doesn't want to see another of his best possibly get beaten on a surface he detests. and i don't remember seeing all this furor over mineshaft when he didn't go.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know that jess is trying to change anything, he just doesn't want to see another of his best possibly get beaten on a surface he detests. and i don't remember seeing all this furor over mineshaft when he didn't go.

Mineshaft was hurt. He didn't just pass the race.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I never said she has to prove herself. I said if Jackson really was acting in the best interests of horseracing as he says he is he would run her in the BC. Too many of you believe for some reason that her not running is going to somehow make the powers that be suddenly wake up and do a 180 on the BC, synthetic surfaces, etc. I hate to tell you but it wont do a damn thing. But not running will make it a less than sucessful event simply because the horse everyone wants to see and would make the BC relevant on the national scene is sitting at home. Perhaps the cynics will enjoy that as it gives them more ammo but it isnt a positive.

And for your info the NTRA is a totally empty group with no authority or say in any of the matters so stop blaming them.



And Freddy, anyone who would defend Ernie paragallo on anything is forever suspect on any topic going forward.

Apparently Crist doesn't concurr. I don't know his thoughts about Enrie but I know he loves the sport wants racing to be successful and thinks that Rachel doesn't have to run in the BC.


You have to come to your senses at some point and recognize that Poly,Cushion, Tapeta, or Pro ride are not dirt and by having races on it were horses are not equipped to succeed doesn't make sense. You shouldn't have your star attraction race 7 straight times on dirt and then insta switch to Pro- Ride.. What do you want Jess to do tell Assumen head 3 weeks early to SA and start training her and see how she does? Why she is a dirt horse?

Look I made a human mistake with Pags because I couldn't believe that a man could be inhumane to animals when he had the money to be responsible. This is far different.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Apparently Crist doesn't concurr. I don't know his thoughts about Enrie but I know he loves the sport wants racing to be successful and thinks that Rachel doesn't have to run in the BC.


You have to come to your senses at some point and recognize that Poly,Cushion, Tapeta, or Pro ride are not dirt and by having races on it were horses are not equipped to succeed doesn't make sense. You shouldn't have your star attraction race 7 straight times on dirt and then insta switch to Pro- Ride.. What do you want Jess to do tell Assumen head 3 weeks early to SA and start training her and see how she does? Why she is a dirt horse?

Look I made a human mistake with Pags because I couldn't believe that a man could be inhumane to animals when he had the money to be responsible. This is far different.

I havent made this into a pro poly thing. Jackson wants to be lauded for "doing the best thing for racing". Not running in the BC (or Travers for that matter) regardless of surface isn't the best thing. The history of racing is full of top horses trying different surfaces (and she has already run on a synthetic track so it isnt exactly new). Dr Fager and Secretariat are both good examples. John Henry is another. If he were to run her in the Travers (lets face it the Woodward against class C types like Macho Uno is hardly a marquee event) against the other TC winners and the hot horse of the day it would be phenomonal for the sport and its fans. A true classic race with all the legitimate top horses in it. And if she were to win that and another tuneup along the way, a matchup against older horses and an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic (I know you have need Moss to grow a set to make this happen) would be a huge event.

Denying this is true is silly and as Steve would say myopic. For RA would have already wrapped up HoY going into that race and really have nothing to lose. If she wins? Jackson really does have himself a true legend (Then maybe he will stop insisting that Curlin is some great of the sport) and he can take on the world in Dubai (on that middle eastern "plastic")

[Sightseek]

Chuck,
I'm curious, I know you don't run any in California, but do you find your horses run the same on all synthetics?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Chuck,
I'm curious, I know you don't run any in California, but do you find your horses run the same on all synthetics?

Dont know till you try.
The fact is that lots of dirt tracks are not alike and play completely different. The old CD surface (the surface of the last 7-8 years is totally different than it was before that) and Keeneland were as different as two tracks can be. The Tampa track with all the sand is a whole lot different than Gulfstreams track surface which was different than Hialeahs.

Synthetic tracks play differently and a lot has to do with the weather but the difference between Belmont and the old Santa Anita track was just as big.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I havent made this into a pro poly thing. Jackson wants to be lauded for "doing the best thing for racing". Not running in the BC (or Travers for that matter) regardless of surface isn't the best thing. The history of racing is full of top horses trying different surfaces (and she has already run on a synthetic track so it isnt exactly new). Dr Fager and Secretariat are both good examples. John Henry is another. If he were to run her in the Travers (lets face it the Woodward against class C types like Macho Uno is hardly a marquee event) against the other TC winners and the hot horse of the day it would be phenomonal for the sport and its fans. A true classic race with all the legitimate top horses in it. And if she were to win that and another tuneup along the way, a matchup against older horses and an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic (I know you have need Moss to grow a set to make this happen) would be a huge event.

Denying this is true is silly and as Steve would say myopic. For RA would have already wrapped up HoY going into that race and really have nothing to lose. If she wins? Jackson really does have himself a true legend (Then maybe he will stop insisting that Curlin is some great of the sport) and he can take on the world in Dubai (on that middle eastern "plastic")

that's right-if anyone thinks he makes any move for the good of anyone other than himself, they are mistaken. i'm glad that he has made an unusual move twice now in running rachel where her previous owners would not-but i don't think he did that for racings well-being. if he was only interested in what was good for racing, he'd be going to the bc. i understand why he doesn't want to-but i also don't understand why people keep trying to make him out to be some sort of good sport about it all. it's almost as logical as jackson making curlin out to be other-worldly.

[Merlinsky]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=4369570

I'm not sure if this was discussed in the previous 12 pages, but I just now got to the Bill Finley article figuring Munnings is gonna beat Rachel Alexandra and had a good chuckle. I am having a grand old time doing a mini-marathon of Rachel's greatest hits on Youtube, much like Tiznow's back to back Classics. RA's one of those horses that you figure won't lose from any deficiency on her part. She is something truly extraordinary and it gives me chills.