Rachel Alexandra (116 Beyer for Haskell)

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What post TC races did Smarty and Barbaro run in again?

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

[tector]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

What "argument"--he's just ranting the same points ad nauseum.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by tector

What "argument"--he's just ranting the same points ad nauseum.

And you are suggesting a $500k race at Calder in December. Yeah maybe run it on Xmas Eve? Call it the Santa Clause Jackson stakes? Maybe Phil Saltzman can make a comeback and call the race? Or pass out Jess Jackson bobbleheads?

In the end I am suggesting that RA running in the BC would be the best possible outcome for the sport of horseracing. You are suggesting to run in December at Calder. Actually you are probably qualified for an exec position with Magna or CDI or better yet NYOTB.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In the end I am suggesting that RA running in the BC would be the best possible outcome for the sport of horseracing.

How?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How?

How would it not?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How would it not?

The race is on a Friday anyway ...

And she would probably run terrible.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The race is on a Friday anyway ...

And she would probably run terrible.

The BC Classic is on a Friday?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How would it not?

I really think it would be best to have Rachel go in the Arc with Zenyatta.. Maybe they could share the plane ride? Chuck Pro Ride is not dirt perhaps you can explain why you want to see a dirt horse race on Pro Ride and not grass.. And since when is the turf classic not the the single most important grass race in America? I really think you are under estimating Rachel's potential on the turf and at 12f's..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I really think it would be best to have Rachel go in the Arc with Zenyatta.. Maybe they could share the plane ride? Chuck Pro Ride is not dirt perhaps you can explain why you want to see a dirt horse race on Pro Ride and not grass.. And since when is the turf classic not the the single most important grass race in America? I really think you are under estimating Rachel's potential on the turf and at 12f's..

Listen fred if you cant understand simple concepts like Ernie Paragallo doesnt give a damn about his horses or anyone else for that matter why would i expect you to understand why she should run in the Classic.

So far in this thread I have been told that RA running in the BC would be bad for the sport, that she shouldnt run in the classic if she did, that 6 yo slugs have been winning the classic, that positive press doesnt matter, that a 500k race at Calder in December would be better than the BC for Zenyatta and RA, that RA wouldnt draw more viewers to the BC telecast, and that owners dont care about money.




And supposedly I'm the one who doesn't get it.....

[DogsUp]

Horse racing is interesting. It is like no other sport in the world. First, the connections has to do what is best for the horse. Second, the connections have to do what is best financially. And the horse racing comes 3rd (the fan). There are not too many sports where the fan comes 3rd and that is a distant 3rd. The connections are going to to what is best for them and that is all. I don't think there have been too many people who have said "lets do this for the fans."

Off topic---has anyone heard of thr rumors of Churchill trying to lure Zenyatta and RA for the Clark?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

You said that they didnt draw fans. What races were they supposed to draw fans to since they never raced beyond the TC? Wasnt there a record crowd at Smarties Belmont?

How else do you raise the awareness level of your product if you dont participate in the most widely available race? How else can thoroughbred racing be taken serious when it cant get its biggest star to run in its biggest events? Since when is a series of races that matches up the best horses and horses from across the world all on one weekend a bad thing? The Fall meet at Belmont is never going to be the same simply because horses arent campaigned the same way. A coordinated stakes program leading up to a year end finale would better than what we have now but to think that we can simply just purge the BC from the schedule and pick up again from 1983 is silly. Before the BC there was fragmnted voting on the year end awards. The fact that the system of electing eclipse awards is broken doesnt mean we should scrap the BC. Just as we can't expect new fans to storm the sport because we have a super horse to market. But to say that the additional attention that a horse like RA would attract wouldn't be a positive is baseless.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You said that they didnt draw fans. What races were they supposed to draw fans to since they never raced beyond the TC? Wasnt there a record crowd at Smarties Belmont?

How else do you raise the awareness level of your product if you dont participate in the most widely available race? How else can thoroughbred racing be taken serious when it cant get its biggest star to run in its biggest events? Since when is a series of races that matches up the best horses and horses from across the world all on one weekend a bad thing? The Fall meet at Belmont is never going to be the same simply because horses arent campaigned the same way. A coordinated stakes program leading up to a year end finale would better than what we have now but to think that we can simply just purge the BC from the schedule and pick up again from 1983 is silly. Before the BC there was fragmnted voting on the year end awards. The fact that the system of electing eclipse awards is broken doesnt mean we should scrap the BC. Just as we can't expect new fans to storm the sport because we have a super horse to market. But to say that the additional attention that a horse like RA would attract wouldn't be a positive is baseless.

I didn't say that they didn't draw new fans. I said that they didn't bring many new fans to the sport. They brought a few fans that wanted to see THEM race. Specifically. Not other horses but them. A lot of those fans didn't stick around because the horses didn't stick around. I think it would be the same with Rachel. Of course Rachel would attract a few more fans to watch her particular race. But would it be a significant amount of people? I don't think so. How many of those few would stick around to watch other races where she's not participating? What I'm saying is that the few extra people that are going to tune in to watch her will tune in whether she's racing at Suffolk or in the BC. Her participation in the BC will not help the sport.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't say that they didn't draw new fans. I said that they didn't bring many new fans to the sport. They brought a few fans that wanted to see THEM race. Specifically. Not other horses but them. A lot of those fans didn't stick around because the horses didn't stick around. I think it would be the same with Rachel. Of course Rachel would attract a few more fans to watch her particular race. But would it be a significant amount of people? I don't think so. How many of those few would stick around to watch other races where she's not participating? What I'm saying is that the few extra people that are going to tune in to watch her will tune in whether she's racing at Suffolk or in the BC. Her participation in the BC will not help the sport.

How can you possibly quantify this?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

Exposure helps to create fans. The sport gets more coverage. Maybe some people get interested in being owners. Or lets pretend like the Haskell being only on TVG was "good" for the sport. It wont solve racings problems but RA vs an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic would be a huge event, even for racing. Maybe they both retire afterwards but you need to get eyes on the product in a positive way.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Exposure helps to create fans. The sport gets more coverage. Maybe some people get interested in being owners. Or lets pretend like the Haskell being only on TVG was "good" for the sport. It wont solve racings problems but RA vs an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic would be a huge event, even for racing. Maybe they both retire afterwards but you need to get eyes on the product in a positive way.

No one knows who Zenyatta is. Rachel against Mine that Bird in the Travers is a far bigger draw than Rachel and Zenyatta to the casual fans.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No one knows who Zenyatta is. Rachel against Mine that Bird in the Travers is a far bigger draw than Rachel and Zenyatta to the casual fans.

And no one knows the next star third baseman until they see him play. She is an undefeated filly who won the BC last year. This is an easy sell especially because these horses are fillies.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And no one knows the next star third baseman until they see him play. She is an undefeated filly who won the BC last year. This is an easy sell especially because these horses are fillies.

Mike Moustakas, that's an easy one, and I've never seen him play.

I actually think having two fillies takes away the novelty of it. A filly beating the boys is an easy sell. Once it becomes two fillies beating the boys it isn't as big of a deal. People will just assume the fillies beat the boys all the time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Mike Moustakas, that's an easy one, and I've never seen him play.

I actually think having two fillies takes away the novelty of it. A filly beating the boys is an easy sell. Once it becomes two fillies beating the boys it isn't as big of a deal. People will just assume the fillies beat the boys all the time.

Moustakas=Not a star