Rachel Alexandra (116 Beyer for Haskell)

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Why should they be afraid of a surface? They are being stubborn dirt lovers with an agenda. You have the best freakin' horse in the country...run her. It's not like she's being asked to be a polo pony or something.

The same could be said of those who think the Breeder's Cup is the be all end all.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

The same could be said of those who think the Breeder's Cup is the be all end all.

Who said one has anything to do with the other?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Who said one has anything to do with the other?

Sorry Bob, but I just don't see how running her in the BC is going to bring more publicity than the Preakness and Haskell....if being stubborn means Jackson's going to run her in races like the latter, I hope he continues this mad stubborn campaign. If anyone else owned her, it's very unlikely she does both the Preakness and Haskell.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Sorry Bob, but I just don't see how running her in the BC is going to bring more publicity than the Preakness and Haskell....if being stubborn means Jackson's going to run her in races like the latter, I hope he continues this mad stubborn campaign. If anyone else owned her, it's very unlikely she does both the Preakness and Haskell.

I disagree...The Preakness did great numbers and she got huge pub..for horse racing. No one outside the fans ever heard of The Haskel so that's moot, but you can make a huge story out of Rachel against the boys in the BC. If someone wants to make a case why it's physically not good for her, that's one thing, but so far the arguments come from four factions..those that hate poly, those that hate the BC, those who think NY racing is the end all and all of the above.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Sorry Bob, but I just don't see how running her in the BC is going to bring more publicity than the Preakness and Haskell....if being stubborn means Jackson's going to run her in races like the latter, I hope he continues this mad stubborn campaign. If anyone else owned her, it's very unlikely she does both the Preakness and Haskell.

Are you kidding? The Haskell asnt even televised? Everyone wants to talk about the "good of the sport". What would be worse than skipping a $6 million dollar nationally televised race with the best and most well known horse in the country because another horse lost on the surface the year before? it is ridiclous that people make the assertion that no one else would have run in these races with her. Hell most everyone thought that she would have won the Derby, what is the big stretch? Wayne Lukas has run a lot of fillies against the colts over the years and no one ever swooned about what a sportsman he is. People who believe that they should teach the BC a lesson and skip the race are not seeing the big picture here. The general public wont understand the issues and having our "championship" day be trivialized because the horse everyone wants to see run, not run is a negative. The Breeders Cup is not going away and the way that guys campaign horses these days, the good old days of the fall championship meet at Belmont arent going to be recreated. Hell when people are ducking $5 million dollar races why wouldnt they duck and dive in $1 million dollar ones.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What would be worse than skipping a $6 million dollar nationally televised race with the best and most well known horse in the country because another horse lost on the surface the year before?

The Classic??

I don't think she'd hit the board in the Distaff - and that's even assuming no Euro's come over.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Classic??

I don't think she'd hit the board in the Distaff - and that's even assuming no Euro's come over.

What difference does it make how she does? Her being in it makes it an event instead of a horserace. Why people dont seem to understand that, I have no idea. It is sad that Jackson is praised for running an $8 million dollar horse in logical million + race as a 1/2 fav. How far has the sport fallen when guys who run huge favs are suddenly charitable sportsman? Hell the other guys who ran their horses are a lot more sporting for showing up regardless of what Monmouth paid them.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What difference does it make how she does?

I think if you have a great horse you shouldn't place it in spots that can likely make your great horse look far worse than it is.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What difference does it make how she does? Her being in it makes it an event instead of a horserace. Why people dont seem to understand that, I have no idea. It is sad that Jackson is praised for running an $8 million dollar horse in logical million + race as a 1/2 fav. How far has the sport fallen when guys who run huge favs are suddenly charitable sportsman? Hell the other guys who ran their horses are a lot more sporting for showing up regardless of what Monmouth paid them.

Huh..This isn't 1988..This isn't Europe 2009. This is America land of the free and the gutless trainers/owners.. Winning Colors is a long time ago.. MOST horse people believe horses need 4 to 6 weeks to run in between races, Not two against males for the first time . You think Bob (get well soon) Frankel would be campaigning her like Jackson is, he would have scratched her 13 ways to Sunday be now? Can Sherriff's/Moss extend themselves a tad here and ship to a real friggin race.. So now we want to suggest that because Jess used the Goose as a prep for a Blue Chip G1 against the Belmont winner a significant Tabor sprinter and fairly acomplished Papa Clem and a recent 7 fig purchase Atomic Rain that he is cherry picking? In all candor have a heart.. When you are fastest horse the public makes you the favorite how is that significant. Maybe Jess should try her on the grass like he attemted to do with Curlin and target the ARC? I mean come on already.

As for the Breeders Cup Santa Anita 2 the sequel. It is absolutely imperative that she doesn't run.. For one this BS that the sport is going to captivate more fans is absurd. We had Smarty Jones and Barbaro and I really can't imagine more press or more media then those two. I guess you think 2.7mil cards being sent to the Moss's and Jackson saying GO RACHEL GO or Girl Power is going to save the sport? Perhaps a free slot voucher with every Girl Power Sign would be helpful..lol

All that is going to happen is that some well bred grass type horse from Europe is going to come her and explode on First time lasix and a turn of foot that is only prevalent in Euro racing and blow these gals away. How that doesn't mitigate our sport is beyond me.. How about a little get the ball rolling revolution.. How about BC(euro) Poly day and BC dirt and grass day.. I go to the BC jumps most years in Far Hills why is it not on site?

Explain to me why Chuck Simon hopefully one day has an elite dirt horse and he has to race that elite dirt multiple G1 winner on grass or poly because the sport needs it. I mean this is crazy.. This makes no sense Poly is not dirt. The NTRA fcuked up and change has to happen. Chuck this isn't a 50k claiming 7 year old grass gelding that is filling a off the turf race on thursday in May..

So if the Moss's don't have to race Zenyatta in the Woodward (whatever race) then I can't understand why Jackson should be under ANY obligation to run Rachel any friggin where.. let's hope Rachel and Zenyatta meet..let's hope the sport focus's on getting a race for them at 9 f's on dirt were Zenyatta has succeeded and they help secure the fans that we have. This sport is not growing in popularity it needs to make sure that its core is protected.. Lowering takeout, less dates, less tracks and better control for med's is the majority of the solution.. Cards from little girls and lemonade stands are sweet and welcomed but hardly the answer.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? The Haskell asnt even televised? Everyone wants to talk about the "good of the sport". What would be worse than skipping a $6 million dollar nationally televised race with the best and most well known horse in the country because another horse lost on the surface the year before? it is ridiclous that people make the assertion that no one else would have run in these races with her. Hell most everyone thought that she would have won the Derby, what is the big stretch? Wayne Lukas has run a lot of fillies against the colts over the years and no one ever swooned about what a sportsman he is. People who believe that they should teach the BC a lesson and skip the race are not seeing the big picture here. The general public wont understand the issues and having our "championship" day be trivialized because the horse everyone wants to see run, not run is a negative. The Breeders Cup is not going away and the way that guys campaign horses these days, the good old days of the fall championship meet at Belmont arent going to be recreated. Hell when people are ducking $5 million dollar races why wouldnt they duck and dive in $1 million dollar ones.

Try to be coherent--more people might listen to you (although, in this case, it is doubtful).

I understand the "big picture" perfectly fine. The "big picture" is that the BC is a clusterf**k run by nincompoops, and the mad rush to relatively untested artificial surfaces was incredibly stupid. You answer is, basically, to ignore all this and just have everyone pretend that everything is fine "for the good of the game".

People just like you ruined the formerly great sport of boxing, by refusing to take a stand while step after step debased that sport. There was time when baseball, boxing and horse racing were the three most prominent sports in the US. Now boxing and horse racing have fallen off the map. Emulating boxing further is no solution.

Screw the BC, screw Santa Anita and screw ABC. Jackson paid 10 million for his filly, and he doesn't owe any of those losers a damn thing. I will be just fine watching RA in the JCGC or whatever. It will be a hell of a lot more interesting than almost any of the BC "dirt" races (I still hold out hope for some of the turf races). You're deluded if you think the BC means much to the general public--that is reserved solely to the Derby and Triple Crown. The BC is supposed to be championship series for US, horse racing fans. Instead, it is now a joke, a completely self-inflicted wound.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by tector

Try to be coherent--more people might listen to you (although, in this case, it is doubtful).

I understand the "big picture" perfectly fine. The "big picture" is that the BC is a clusterf**k run by nincompoops, and the mad rush to relatively untested artificial surfaces was incredibly stupid. You answer is, basically, to ignore all this and just have everyone pretend that everything is fine "for the good of the game".

People just like you ruined the formerly great sport of boxing, by refusing to take a stand while step after step debased that sport. There was time when baseball, boxing and horse racing were the three most prominent sports in the US. Now boxing and horse racing have fallen off the map. Emulating boxing further is no solution.

Screw the BC, screw Santa Anita and screw ABC. Jackson paid 10 million for his filly, and he doesn't owe any of those losers a damn thing. I will be just fine watching RA in the JCGC or whatever. It will be a hell of a lot more interesting than almost any of the BC "dirt" races (I still hold out hope for some of the turf races). You're deluded if you think the BC means much to the general public--that is reserved solely to the Derby and Triple Crown. The BC is supposed to be championship series for US, horse racing fans. Instead, it is now a joke, a completely self-inflicted wound.

I'm sure your self imposed boycot of the Breeders Cup will save the sport. Funny boxing is ruined. Tell that to De La Hoya, Hopkins, Cotto, Pacquio, Hatten, Calghaze, Abraham, Mayweather, etc who have made tens of millions in that dead sport. The truth is that the big event days that were initiated by the advent of the Breeders Cup are what works. Thinking that the Jockey Club Gold Cup on it own is going to stand up simply on its merits or history is stupid. You are deluded if you think that the end of the BC would mean that those fall races would magically regain their luster or give definitive answers to the questions. Just as they do now, the top horses will avoid each other and hope to win the PR battle. The game has changed, deal with it.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure your self imposed boycot of the Breeders Cup will save the sport. Funny boxing is ruined. Tell that to De La Hoya, Hopkins, Cotto, Pacquio, Hatten, Calghaze, Abraham, Mayweather, etc who have made tens of millions in that dead sport. The truth is that the big event days that were initiated by the advent of the Breeders Cup are what works. Thinking that the Jockey Club Gold Cup on it own is going to stand up simply on its merits or history is stupid. You are deluded if you think that the end of the BC would mean that those fall races would magically regain their luster or give definitive answers to the questions. Just as they do now, the top horses will avoid each other and hope to win the PR battle. The game has changed, deal with it.

If you cannot even acknowledge how far boxing has fallen, even from just the 70s, you are a proven fool and a waste of my time.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? The Haskell asnt even televised? Everyone wants to talk about the "good of the sport". What would be worse than skipping a $6 million dollar nationally televised race with the best and most well known horse in the country because another horse lost on the surface the year before? it is ridiclous that people make the assertion that no one else would have run in these races with her. Hell most everyone thought that she would have won the Derby, what is the big stretch? Wayne Lukas has run a lot of fillies against the colts over the years and no one ever swooned about what a sportsman he is. People who believe that they should teach the BC a lesson and skip the race are not seeing the big picture here. The general public wont understand the issues and having our "championship" day be trivialized because the horse everyone wants to see run, not run is a negative. The Breeders Cup is not going away and the way that guys campaign horses these days, the good old days of the fall championship meet at Belmont arent going to be recreated. Hell when people are ducking $5 million dollar races why wouldnt they duck and dive in $1 million dollar ones.

I'm sure if we took a poll no one is going to say "I'm a racing fan because Wayne Lukas ran Kentucky Derby winning filly Winning Colors in the Breeder's Cup."

[freddymo]

I think Chuck's point at its roots is obvious..Clearly, the more good publicity the better and if Rachel were to run in the BC it would be a higher rated telecast.. Unfortunately, Chuck's simpliest view fails IMO to address the real issues. Poly is a third surface..I am not against a third surface, I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with it. I just think it needs to be treated as such. You want a poly champship? I do I love racing i have no issue watching and betting 9 Poly races with big fields and quality horses. I just don't think its fair to make dirt horses run on poly when it isn't in their best interest or the sports.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think Chuck's point at its roots is obvious..Clearly, the more good publicity the better and if Rachel were to run in the BC it would be a higher rated telecast.. Unfortunately, Chuck's simpliest view fails IMO to address the real issues. Poly is a third surface..I am not against a third surface, I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with it. I just think it needs to be treated as such. You want a poly champship? I do I love racing i have no issue watching and betting 9 Poly races with big fields and quality horses. I just don't think its fair to make dirt horses run on poly when it isn't in their best interest or the sports.

The BC overall hasn't showed to be very powerful in television ratings - I think it would have been more beneficial to televise the Haskell. You're asking people to tune into 6 hours of tv vs. an hour max for the Haskell. Plus if Rachel runs in the Ladies Classic it's on a friday when most people are at work and Saturday has it's own conflict with other sports.

As for the rest of your post - I completely agree.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think Chuck's point at its roots is obvious..Clearly, the more good publicity the better and if Rachel were to run in the BC it would be a higher rated telecast.. Unfortunately, Chuck's simpliest view fails IMO to address the real issues. Poly is a third surface..I am not against a third surface, I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with it. I just think it needs to be treated as such. You want a poly champship? I do I love racing i have no issue watching and betting 9 Poly races with big fields and quality horses. I just don't think its fair to make dirt horses run on poly when it isn't in their best interest or the sports.

No that isnt the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that the sports biggest star and probably best horse should run in its biggest non triple crown race. Horseracing will again get slammed because unlike you guys the general public and sportwriters dont understand or care about the internal issues. They want to know why we cant get our **** straight especially with a horse who has already handled the artificial surfaces before. Regardless of Sightseeks assertions the fact that Lukas ran Winning Colors in the Derby and Preakness never earned him the "sportsmans" praise. He just wasn't afraid to run fillies against colts in spots that they fit in. And yes I'm sure she did garner a lot of eextra attention because she was a filly. While I am a believer that we have larger issues in the treatment of our core customers than any "sporting" related issue, saying that the tv coverage of the BC isnt a positive or that the public wouldnt turn on to see a super filly is stupid.

Jackson skipping the BC isnt going to change anything.