Jeter vs Dye for MVP

[timmgirvan]

Both are worthy...I'd vote for Jeter for the leadership during this crazy season!

[Gander]

What about Johan Santana? Just because hes a pitcher doesnt mean hes not a MVP. Would the Twins be in this race w/o him? No way.

Originally Posted by Gander

What about Johan Santana? Just because hes a pitcher doesnt mean hes not a MVP. Would the Twins be in this race w/o him? No way.

Tim,
Pitchers and DH's have no right ever getting that award. That award should be for every day players who play the field as well as hit. And you get the absurd statement of the day award for arguing for any pitcher before Mariano. You honestly think there is a more valuable pitcher in baseball than Mariano? Do you know any GM who would rather have Santana on his team over mariano? WOW!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You honestly think there is a more valuable pitcher in baseball than Mariano? Do you know any GM who would rather have Santana on his team over mariano? WOW!!

Santana is easily the best pitcher in baseball. He has no weakness and is much younger than Rivera. Rivera is a great player but Santana is a dominant starter, true ace, in an era where there is no aces.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Tim,
Pitchers and DH's have no right ever getting that award. That award should be for every day players who play the field as well as hit. And you get the absurd statement of the day award for arguing for any pitcher before Mariano. You honestly think there is a more valuable pitcher in baseball than Mariano? Do you know any GM who would rather have Santana on his team over mariano? WOW!!

........oracle, i gotta come to ganders defense.
mariano who is the most clutch closer of all time and is still nails isnt as domonate as santana this year.

Originally Posted by alysheba4

........oracle, i gotta come to ganders defense.
mariano who is the most clutch closer of all time and is still nails isnt as domonate as santana this year.

Well I still dunno about that but i do know that neither is as valuable as Jeter or Dye.
Its incredible how little credit anyone gives playing the field anymore. Noone notices until someone boots a ground ball that costs someone a game.
Jeter has been lights out in the field this year and his fielding percentage doesnt even begin to tell the story. Hes made some incredible plays that would have been ruled hits had he not gotten them and turned into one or even two outs.
He carried the Yankees on his back when the whole team was wounded and without Damon, Cano, Matsui and Sheff and before they had traded for ABreu. During that stretch Arod was stinking the joint up as well and Jeter was the guy who held it together. WIthout him, the Yanks are holding a slim lead over Boston right now. Hes been incredibly valuable and his numbers are awesome.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I still dunno about that but i do know that neither is as valuable as Jeter or Dye.
Its incredible how little credit anyone gives playing the field anymore. Noone notices until someone boots a ground ball that costs someone a game.
Jeter has been lights out in the field this year and his fielding percentage doesnt even begin to tell the story. Hes made some incredible plays that would have been ruled hits had he not gotten them and turned into one or even two outs.
He carried the Yankees on his back when the whole team was wounded and without Damon, Cano, Matsui and Sheff and before they had traded for ABreu. During that stretch Arod was stinking the joint up as well and Jeter was the guy who held it together. WIthout him, the Yanks are holding a slim lead over Boston right now. Hes been incredibly valuable and his numbers are awesome.

there is no doubt about that...... my best friend believe it or not is the big units best friend...... they played together back in 1987 i believe in the expo orginization. anyway, the unit has told my buddy that jeter
is the most awesome leader he has ever played with..... thats huge

[Gander]

I have no problem with Jeter winning MVP. He deserves it. The guy is an incredible player in 10 different ways.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Another who has had an amazing year. Here's my problem with that, as Joe Morgan also said yesterday. Santana will pitch in approximately 30-35 games this year. That leaves 130 or so other games, where he has no impact on the game at all. He should win the CY in a landslide, and I agree the Twins wouldn't even be in the race without him, but neither would the Yankees and White Sox. Morgan also went back to Pedro's 1999 year in which he put up better numbers than Santana, and he only finished 5th in the voting.

Ditto, and do any of you honestly feel hes more valuable than Mariano? Blah. I dont any manager alive who would rather have santana over mariano.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ditto, and do any of you honestly feel hes more valuable than Mariano? Blah. I dont any manager alive who would rather have santana over mariano.

I'd take santana and nathan over wang and rivera anyday.

[Cannon Shell]

Actually when you examine the numbers two things stick out at you.
1. Santana is clearly the best pitcher in baseball and may be the best player at his position.
2. Rivera is slipping. This is not one his better years and when you take into consideration he is 36 he might be going the wrong way.

Want proof?

W - L ERA SV IP H BB K H/9 BB/9 K/9
Rivera 5 - 5 1.90 33 71 57 11 49 8.1 1.2 5.7
Santana 18- 5 2.75 n/a 212 166 43 230 6.5 1.6 9.1

Santana leads the league in Wins, ERA, K's, IP. A triple crown for starters.
Rivera leads AL closers in ...well....nothing.
He is the 5th best closer in the AL this year. Papllebaum, K-Rod, Nathan, and B.J. Ryan all are having better seasons than Mariano.

Ever heard of VORP? It is similar to a sheet number for baseball players.Higher is better.
Santana's for the last 3 years - 73, 89.9, 51.1
Rivera's are 32.2, 37.9, 32.6
Value over replacement player clearly indicates that Santana isn't only more valuable at his position than Rivera is at his, it's not really even close.

Historically Rivera will go down as the greatest closer in history but in 2006 and beyond, Johan Santana is who you want.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think we have awards for pitching already(cy Young etc.)For fielding we have gold gloves(not doubt Jeter should get this for ss.)We have the batting title for batting average(I suggest Jeter try for this.)Then,we have the award for power hitting,and RBI production(MVP.) Then,you have to decide if somebody on a team (that doesn't make the post ) is really that valuable.See,folks,Ortiz has the numbers deserving of this award.However,he and his team did not even try pinch hitting with him in a pivotal week or more in late August/early September.They gave up.How valuable was he on a team that quit? Depends on what you think the award should be given out for.