Manny Robbed

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That was a joke. That pitch was definitely a few inches outside. Over the years when they have used some of the really good camera angles in slow motion, I've seen some strikes called that were even worse. Some of these umpires call strikes on pitches that are literally 6 inches outside. Some of the really good pitchers would consistently get these calls. They would throw a slider that was never over the plate at any time, a pitch that started about two inches outside and ended up 5-6 inches outside and they would call it a strike. It would drive me crazy. It would make it almost impossible for a team to score any runs if the umpire is going to call those pitches strikes.

There are about 300 pitches throw a game. An ump missing a few still makes him 99% right.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are about 300 pitches throw a game. An ump missing a few still makes him 99% right.

3rd strike, and 4th ball...Those pitch calls are a bit more important.

This was an unusually bad strike 3 call(Like 999/1000 fans at home would have been surprised to see it called a strike.) Eric Gregg-style strike. Cannon, you are(at best) minorly disturbed. An example of majorly disturbed would be whatever that crap is that NOMAR can't stop doing.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are about 300 pitches throw a game. An ump missing a few still makes him 99% right.

I think it can be alot worse than that. When it comes to "safe" or "out" calls, I agree with you that they are probably right at least 99% of the time. But when it comes to "balls" and "strikes", I've seen games where they are calling strikes on outside pitches the entire game. You don't have a great view from the head-on angle, but when they show that overhead camera, you can see exactly how far outside the pitches are. I've seen games where they probably made 40 bad strike calls.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think it can be alot worse than that. When it comes to "safe" or "out" calls, I agree with you that they are probably right at least 99% of the time. But when it comes to "balls" and "strikes", I've seen games where they are calling strikes on outside pitches the entire game. You don't have a great view from the head-on angle, but when they show that overhead camera, you can see exactly how far outside the pitches are. I've seen games where they probably made 40 bad strike calls.

If they are consistent, no one is complaining. All umps have different strike zones..right or wrong. It's when they vary between innings that guys get tossed.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GBBob

If they are consistent, no one is complaining. All umps have different strike zones..right or wrong. It's when they vary between innings that guys get tossed.

I know that seems to be the prevailing opinion that as long as they are consistent, then it is ok. I agree with you that it is obviously much better if they are consistent and in most of the games I'm complaing about, the umpire was in fact conistent. But as a hitter, you still have have practically no chance, even if you know that the umpire is giving the pitcher a wide strike-zone. You can try to adjust and swing at the pitches that are 4 inches outside, but you are still at a huge disadvantage. You have to start crowding the plate so you can reach that outside pitch. Then you have no chance on the pitches on the inside corner.

And often times, the umpire is only giving the call to the big-name pitcher and not the pitcher on the other team.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I know that seems to be the prevailing opinion that as long as they are consistent, then it is ok. I agree with you that it is obviously much better if they are consistent and in most of the games I'm complaing about, the umpire was in fact conistent. But as a hitter, you still have have practically no chance, even if you know that the umpire is giving the pitcher a wide strike-zone. You can try to adjust and swing at the pitches that are 4 inches outside, but you are still at a huge disadvantage. You have to start crowding the plate so you can reach that outside pitch. Then you have no chance on the pitches on the inside corner.

And often times, the umpire is only giving the call to the big-name pitcher and not the pitcher on the other team.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1331

I do know is that Hirschbeck has absolutely no incentive to act with the intent suggested by Cohen. Umpires are constantly reviewed, and it would be bad enough for Hirschbeck that he missed these calls, period, let alone that he purposely missed them in an attempt to send a message. Actions like that tend to result in fines and discipline, not high praise.

The PITCHf/x data further confirms the outside location of this controversial pitch. While serving as home plate umpire this season, with right handed hitters up to bat, Hirschbeck has had to make a call (IE - ball wasn’t fouled off, whiffed at, or put in play) on 373 different pitches with similar horizontal location to the Manny pitch. He called strikes on 32 of these pitches, several of which were further outside than the slider to Ramirez. Hirschbeck hasn’t missed calls on pitches like this that often but the Ramirez call certainly wasn’t an isolated incident.

Does he harbor ill will towards Ramirez? I don’t know. I doubt Gary Cohen knows either. If Yuniesky Betancourt or some other hacktastic hitter with a poor eye were called out on a pitch like this, everyone would question the call for thirty-four seconds and then move on with their lives. Since it is Manny we’re talking about here, the same pitch suddenly balloons into a potential conspiracy with umpires “fixing” at bats to shun a player whose actions they look down on. It’s possible, no doubt, but it seems like a far reach that better fits person opinions on what should happen rather than what actually happened.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Oh, hell yea, it's soooo rare for a white ump to be biased against a minority player with a history of being "mouthy." That ugly thing with Bradley at 1st base didn't just come out of nowhere. These guys talk about this stuff the next day at breakfast, or lunch. Look at it objectively, and you'll see what really happened. I don't think it's just random unfortunate error(like da Cannon.) What I hate is not necessarily the natural bias in people. People with Manny's personality type are almost always loved by those close to them, and disliked by most everyone else. What I hate is when professionals allow themselves to act on their own bias. The chances that he doesn't like Manny are high. Manny argued with him earlier about a borderline pitch. The bases are loaded with 2 outs in the 5th inning. The Met fans would erupt if the hated Manny could be called out on strikes in this situation (it would be sweet.) Dodgers are already ahead 5-0 against a team that's struggling offensively. I just think the ump thought he'd give himself(as well as his buddies, n' the fans around the league) a thrill. I do not think he just was unfortunately blind on this one pitch. It wasn't a close pitch. He probably thought it was close enough he could get away with it, but it wasn't. I have a history of giving the accused guy the benefit of the doubt in these situations(results in Black rage being focused full force upon moi.) Why it happened is not nearly as important as it seems. Fact is he butchered the call badly. Should be treated like any other big mistake at work. Cannon tends to think those with the higher status jobs should get a softer cushion when they don't perform their jobs well. I've seen it a lot with Conservatives. It's quite a phenomenon. Fact is the ump is either biased, or inept. Fact is that baseball tolerates people like this, because a lot of people just like the arguments in baseball. They like that more than a properly called game. Obviously, people have varying tastes.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Oh, hell yea, it's soooo rare for a white ump to be biased against a minority player with a history of being "mouthy." That ugly thing with Bradley at 1st base didn't just come out of nowhere. These guys talk about this stuff the next day at breakfast, or lunch. Look at it objectively, and you'll see what really happened. I don't think it's just random unfortunate error(like da Cannon.) What I hate is not necessarily the natural bias in people. People with Manny's personality type are almost always loved by those close to them, and disliked by most everyone else. What I hate is when professionals allow themselves to act on their own bias. The chances that he doesn't like Manny are high. Manny argued with him earlier about a borderline pitch. The bases are loaded with 2 outs in the 5th inning. The Met fans would erupt if the hated Manny could be called out on strikes in this situation (it would be sweet.) Dodgers are already ahead 5-0 against a team that's struggling offensively. I just think the ump thought he'd give himself(as well as his buddies, n' the fans around the league) a thrill. I do not think he just was unfortunately blind on this one pitch. It wasn't a close pitch. He probably thought it was close enough he could get away with it, but it wasn't. I have a history of giving the accused guy the benefit of the doubt in these situations(results in Black rage being focused full force upon moi.) Why it happened is not nearly as important as it seems. Fact is he butchered the call badly. Should be treated like any other big mistake at work. Cannon tends to think those with the higher status jobs should get a softer cushion when they don't perform their jobs well. I've seen it a lot with Conservatives. It's quite a phenomenon. Fact is the ump is either biased, or inept. Fact is that baseball tolerates people like this, because a lot of people just like the arguments in baseball. They like that more than a properly called game. Obviously, people have varying tastes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pFQM...eature=related

Busted!!!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Oh, hell yea, it's soooo rare for a white ump to be biased against a minority player with a history of being "mouthy." That ugly thing with Bradley at 1st base didn't just come out of nowhere. These guys talk about this stuff the next day at breakfast, or lunch. Look at it objectively, and you'll see what really happened. I don't think it's just random unfortunate error(like da Cannon.) What I hate is not necessarily the natural bias in people. People with Manny's personality type are almost always loved by those close to them, and disliked by most everyone else. What I hate is when professionals allow themselves to act on their own bias. The chances that he doesn't like Manny are high. Manny argued with him earlier about a borderline pitch. The bases are loaded with 2 outs in the 5th inning. The Met fans would erupt if the hated Manny could be called out on strikes in this situation (it would be sweet.) Dodgers are already ahead 5-0 against a team that's struggling offensively. I just think the ump thought he'd give himself(as well as his buddies, n' the fans around the league) a thrill. I do not think he just was unfortunately blind on this one pitch. It wasn't a close pitch. He probably thought it was close enough he could get away with it, but it wasn't. I have a history of giving the accused guy the benefit of the doubt in these situations(results in Black rage being focused full force upon moi.) Why it happened is not nearly as important as it seems. Fact is he butchered the call badly. Should be treated like any other big mistake at work. Cannon tends to think those with the higher status jobs should get a softer cushion when they don't perform their jobs well. I've seen it a lot with Conservatives. It's quite a phenomenon. Fact is the ump is either biased, or inept. Fact is that baseball tolerates people like this, because a lot of people just like the arguments in baseball. They like that more than a properly called game. Obviously, people have varying tastes.

You are retarded. So now the white umps are racially biased? Oh boy...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1331

I do know is that Hirschbeck has absolutely no incentive to act with the intent suggested by Cohen. Umpires are constantly reviewed, and it would be bad enough for Hirschbeck that he missed these calls, period, let alone that he purposely missed them in an attempt to send a message. Actions like that tend to result in fines and discipline, not high praise.

The PITCHf/x data further confirms the outside location of this controversial pitch. While serving as home plate umpire this season, with right handed hitters up to bat, Hirschbeck has had to make a call (IE - ball wasn’t fouled off, whiffed at, or put in play) on 373 different pitches with similar horizontal location to the Manny pitch. He called strikes on 32 of these pitches, several of which were further outside than the slider to Ramirez. Hirschbeck hasn’t missed calls on pitches like this that often but the Ramirez call certainly wasn’t an isolated incident.

Does he harbor ill will towards Ramirez? I don’t know. I doubt Gary Cohen knows either. If Yuniesky Betancourt or some other hacktastic hitter with a poor eye were called out on a pitch like this, everyone would question the call for thirty-four seconds and then move on with their lives. Since it is Manny we’re talking about here, the same pitch suddenly balloons into a potential conspiracy with umpires “fixing” at bats to shun a player whose actions they look down on. It’s possible, no doubt, but it seems like a far reach that better fits person opinions on what should happen rather than what actually happened.

If this umpire called strikes on 32 pitches that were even further outside than the pitch in question, then this umpire is consistently bad and he needs to tighten his strike-zone. That was pretty much my point, that some of these umpires are calling strikes on pitches that are way outside.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If this umpire called strikes on 32 pitches that were even further outside than the pitch in question, then this umpire is consistently bad and he needs to tighten his strike-zone. That was pretty much my point. That some of these umpires are calling strikes on pitches that are way outside.

They always have. Just now it is easy to watch and even track it. Nothing has changed except the way the game is covered now. The baseball strike zone is called much more accurately that holding is in football.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1331

I do know is that Hirschbeck has absolutely no incentive to act with the intent suggested by Cohen. Umpires are constantly reviewed, and it would be bad enough for Hirschbeck that he missed these calls, period, let alone that he purposely missed them in an attempt to send a message. Actions like that tend to result in fines and discipline, not high praise.

The PITCHf/x data further confirms the outside location of this controversial pitch. While serving as home plate umpire this season, with right handed hitters up to bat, Hirschbeck has had to make a call (IE - ball wasn’t fouled off, whiffed at, or put in play) on 373 different pitches with similar horizontal location to the Manny pitch. He called strikes on 32 of these pitches, several of which were further outside than the slider to Ramirez. Hirschbeck hasn’t missed calls on pitches like this that often but the Ramirez call certainly wasn’t an isolated incident.

Does he harbor ill will towards Ramirez? I don’t know. I doubt Gary Cohen knows either. If Yuniesky Betancourt or some other hacktastic hitter with a poor eye were called out on a pitch like this, everyone would question the call for thirty-four seconds and then move on with their lives. Since it is Manny we’re talking about here, the same pitch suddenly balloons into a potential conspiracy with umpires “fixing” at bats to shun a player whose actions they look down on. It’s possible, no doubt, but it seems like a far reach that better fits person opinions on what should happen rather than what actually happened.

I can't believe is the fact that Prospectus actually posted this article.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

It wasn't a hard call. They say he's had some other bad outside strike calls. That may be, but we can't comment on those we haven't seen. Some pitches are simply harder to judge than others. We all saw how easy this particular pitch was to call a ball. It was a very, very easy ball to call. I really think it's a reach to think anybody (who's watched much baseball at all) would honestly call that a strike. Either way, something has to be done. I don't want the same guy costing a team a game. The bad calls at 1st base should be enough excitement for the bored people.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

I can't believe is the fact that Prospectus actually posted this article.

Why? Should they just start to make things up like the rest of the sports media to create a good story? The guy make a good point and backs it up with facts. Or you can just keep believing the umps are cheating against Manny and the Yankees.