Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Now, that wealth of information has already stood up to years (a couple decades) of peer review,

It is rare, a small minority, that voice skepticism of the reality of global warming. Sort of like the Flat Earth Society members, and those that think the moon walk occured in Arizona.

.

not according to time magazine at least in the mid 70's or are these the Flat Earth society members?

Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

not according to time magazine at least in the mid 70's or are these the Flat Earth society members?

Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html

??? Do you have a point? If so, what is it?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

??? Do you have a point? If so, what is it?

A few decades ago scientits were fearing an ice age?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

A few decades ago scientits were fearing an ice age?

A few more decades ago malaria was thought to be caused by "bad air".

Originally Posted by dellinger63

not according to time magazine at least in the mid 70's or are these the Flat Earth society members?

Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html

There are many more older studies also showing this and the opposite.
But as of right now, the general consensus is that the earth is
in a warming period.

I think this is the problem: There will be individual studies or reviews of studies that will indicate the earth is cooling, the earth is warming, we cannot tell, the earth's temp. has generally stayed steady having up and down cycles.

But the general consensus is that the Earth is in a warming trend. This might change, as Science this big, is very complex, takes a lot of time, and can be interpreted in many ways depending on what one wants to looks at as significant. And of course political leanings.

And yes the press will take many findings or studies and blow them way out of proportion as to make for excitement... happens all the time in studies concerning certain food, drugs, epidemics...
'Eat raw pine needles, dont eat raw pine needles...'

So for our health nuts the following appear to be true as of now:

1. Smoking is linked to cancer, heart disease, and a few other things in most people.
2. Certain types of fats (saturated variety) increase the risk of heart and circulatory problems, strokes in most people.
3. High Fiber in the diet appears to lower the risk of colon cancer in most people.

We could go on.

ANd of course that person that smokes, eats only butter avoiding fiber at all costs will live to 100 getting killed in a car accident. Some will then conclude this is evidence that the 3 findings written above are wrong.

[dellinger63]

A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...change-report/

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...change-report/

How about we agree to keep the discussion of global climate change in the scientific realm, where it belongs, rather than stepping off into the sideshow of the political circus?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

How about we agree to keep the discussion of global climate change in the scientific realm, where it belongs, rather than stepping off into the sideshow of the political circus?

when EPA reports are suppressed because of political motives we have a problem.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...change-report/

The guy who wrote the report is an economist.

I am glad he is questioning the science but its
really hard to refute unless he gives out the papers
that he read or some compilation like Danzig gave out
so the data that someone has gathered can be looked at
as selective, wideranging and important... we just dont
know. He may have used part of the report Danzig gave.
It sort of sounds the same. And in that case I can see how
he was told to move on or find something more comprehensive.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The guy who wrote the report is an economist.

I am glad he is questioning the science but its
really hard to refute unless he gives out the papers
that he read or some compilation like Danzig gave out
so the data that someone has gathered can be looked at
as selective, wideranging and important... we just dont
know. He may have used part of the report Danzig gave.
It sort of sounds the same. And in that case I can see how
he was told to move on or find something more comprehensive.

I agree that the report has to be looked at but instead of dismissing it simply because the guy is a economist makes no sense. Otherwise Al Gore should be suppressed do to him being a politician and a very bad one might I add.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I agree that the report has to be looked at but instead of dismissing it simply because the guy is a economist makes no sense. Otherwise Al Gore should be suppressed do to him being a politician and a very bad one might I add.

okay. how's this?

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...bkes/#more-691

this is just one more small battle in the right's long term war on science.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I agree that the report has to be looked at but instead of dismissing it simply because the guy is a economist makes no sense. Otherwise Al Gore should be suppressed do to him being a politician and a very bad one might I add.

Of course it makes sense to weigh the evaluation of a report in one field, in light of the evaluator not being competent within the field of study! Would you pay attention to the report by an OB-GYN evaluating the efficacy of doing cardiac ultrasounds to screen for occult cardiomyopathy in older men? Wouldn't that type of report have more weight coming from a cardiologist?

?? Al Gore is a politician who talked about an issue he put front and center in his campaign. He's not a scientist. Climate change, and the scientific discussion and investigation of it, went on no matter what Al Gore did or didn't do.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

Of course it makes sense to weigh the evaluation of a report in one field, in light of the evaluator not being competent within the field of study! Would you pay attention to the report by an OB-GYN evaluating the efficacy of doing cardiac ultrasounds to screen for occult cardiomyopathy in older men?

?? Al Gore is a politician who talked about an issue he put front and center in his campaign. He's not a scientist. Climate change, and the scientific discussion and investigation of it, went on no matter what Al Gore did or didn't do.

i don't think we need to spend all that much time bothering with the pitcher's qualifications when what's been thrown is a slow curve over the fat part of the plate.

this is an un-peer reviewed article that cites as one source a blog.

apparently, if someone at nasa writes that the earth is flat, that needs to be included in any discussion of orbital mechanics.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And yes the press will take many findings or studies and blow them way out of proportion as to make for excitement... happens all the time in studies concerning certain food, drugs, epidemics....

www.badscience.net

"Next week the World Conference of Science Journalists will be coming to London. A few of us felt they were might not adequately address some of the key problems in their profession, which has deteriorated to the point where they present a serious danger to public health, fail to keep geeks well nourished, and actively undermine the publics’ understanding of what it means for there to be evidence for a claim."

I don't put all the blame on the media, I think some of it lays within some school systems: not teaching critical reasoning or thinking skills, calling "intelligent design" a "science", etc. type of thing.