Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, Dell, when you respond to a post, but do not talk about the points raised by the other poster about the subject at hand, but rather you comment only about the poster, that is a personal attack.

It's a common response on internet lists for people that don't have any salient argument available regarding the subject matter at hand.

That some apparently repeatedly have difficulty following or understanding the points other posters may make doesn't automatically mean the posters are at fault

I asked you repeatedly for whether you agree or disagree w/ Carter believing Israel's treatment of Palestinians is worse than Rwanda (missed all those Palestinians running around with burning tires hanging from them) and you went all over the place AVOIDING the subject at hand before finally saying you don't agree w/all his policies despite his great understanding of all things mid east. Then you say the dust bowl was the fault of man. I asked how did man create the draught and you go completely off subject attacking Chuck and presumably me for not having a 'salient' argument. Now I ask again please tell me how man created the draught and please keep on subject?

[Riot]

I asked you repeatedly for whether you agree or disagree w/ Carter believing Israel's treatment of Palestinians is worse than Rwanda

Yes, which had nothing at all to do with the previous discussion at hand, least of all the context of which I brought up Carter's name. You went off on a weird tangent. I told you if you wanted to discuss his middle east policies and successes or failures, start your own thread and enjoy.

Then you say the dust bowl was the fault of man. I asked how did man create the draught and you go completely off subject attacking Chuck and presumably me for not having a 'salient' argument. Now I ask again please tell me how man created the draught and please keep on subject?

LOL - I never said man created a drought Man's changing the environmental ecology by tilling thousands of acres of soil was indeed the sole cause of subsequently losing all that soil when that man-altered environment was subjected to normal environmental variances.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, which had nothing at all to do with the previous discussion at hand, least of all the context of which I brought up Carter's name. You went off on a weird tangent. I told you if you wanted to discuss his middle east policies and successes or failures, start your own thread and enjoy.



LOL - I never said man created a drought Man's changing the environmental ecology by tilling thousands of acres of soil was indeed the sole cause of subsequently losing all that soil when that man-altered environment was subjected to normal environmental variances.

YOU! brought up Carter as having a deep understanding of the mid east and when I pointed out some of his stated understanding that's going on a weird tangent?

and w/o a severe draught and global warming that happened during the early 30's the soil would have remained where it was. I understand it led to many innovations in farming specifically rotating crops and going away from deep soil tilling but it's like arguing the chicken or the egg in so far as man being the sole cause... IMO

[Riot]

YOU! brought up Carter as having a deep understanding of the mid east and when I pointed out some of his stated understanding that's going on a weird tangent?

and w/o a severe draught and global warming that happened during the early 30's the soil would have remained where it was.

The soil on the great plains would have remained where it was even during severe drought and severe wind if the normal prairie was still covering it. But the prairie wasn't there to hold the soil. Why? Because man removed it so he could plant crops.

My point is that man can indeed influence and change the environment, sometimes forever. Why does the Colorado River no longer flow to the Pacific Ocean? Why are there no passenger pigeons?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, which had nothing at all to do with the previous discussion at hand, least of all the context of which I brought up Carter's name. You went off on a weird tangent. I told you if you wanted to discuss his middle east policies and successes or failures, start your own thread and enjoy.



LOL - I never said man created a drought Man's changing the environmental ecology by tilling thousands of acres of soil was indeed the sole cause of subsequently losing all that soil when that man-altered environment was subjected to normal environmental variances.

but tilling wasn't the sole cause. drought caused the seeds not to sprout, which meant no growth to hold the soil, which caused it to blow away. there was no reason, after years of farming that region, to think farming there was a bad thing. it certainly wasn't the farmers fault that the jet stream shifted, taking the rain with it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but tilling wasn't the sole cause. drought caused the seeds not to sprout, which meant no growth to hold the soil, which caused it to blow away. there was no reason, after years of farming that region, to think farming there was a bad thing. it certainly wasn't the farmers fault that the jet stream shifted, taking the rain with it.

"In 1857, a bill was brought forth to the Ohio State Legislature seeking protection for the passenger pigeon."

"A Select Committee of the Senate filed a report stating, 'The passenger pigeon needs no protection. Wonderfully prolific, having the vast forests of the North as its breeding grounds, traveling hundreds of miles in search of food, it is here today and elsewhere tomorrow, and no ordinary destruction can lessen them, or be missed from the myriads that are yearly produced.' "

"Fifty-seven years later, on September 1, 1914, Martha, the last known passenger pigeon, died in the Cincinnati Zoo, Cincinnati, Ohio."

If I believed that man was a victim in the dust bowl, rather than the main contributory cause, then I would also have to blame the Colorado River no longer reaching the sea on, not because of man in the US literally sucking it dry and empty, but on weather (rain and snow melt) not providing man enough water to ensure our excessive drain and abuse could not suck it dry.

I don't believe that