Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Control..no? But if Joey, Timmi, Cannon or others really believe Global Warming is a huge hoax...a "Cottage Industry"..than there is no conversation.

But didn't you read the article? There are a whole 700 scientists worldwide estimated to be skeptics of man made global warming. I don't know what could be more conclusive. Oh, wait, I do, if there weren't 99% on the other side.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

But didn't you read the article? There are a whole 700 scientists worldwide estimated to be skeptics of man made global warming. I don't know what could be more conclusive. Oh, wait, I do, if there weren't 99% on the other side.

not a 'majority rules' argument??? i wonder if more would step forward if they didn't fear a backlash. galileo was right, but denied his own correct findings to avoid being burned at the stake.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not a 'majority rules' argument??? i wonder if more would step forward if they didn't fear a backlash. galileo was right, but denied his own correct findings to avoid being burned at the stake.

You are really comparing the plight of the modern scientist to Galileo?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You are really comparing the plight of the modern scientist to Galileo?

i mentioned galileo as an example of someone who was afraid to speak the truth-obviously i don't expect someone to be charged with heresy anymore.

you've heard the term safety in numbers, right? no one wants to be called a crackpot. more scientists are rethinking the whole global warming deal-who knows when thing will tilt in the other direction? if in a few years time, the majority of scientists said there's no man made global warming, will you be content with that? how much is science, and how much is jumping on the bandwagon? the fact that scientists change sides has got to make you wonder just how much real science is involved-at least it does me. science is supposed to be based on facts, not beliefs-which is probably why some call it the 'new religion'.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i mentioned galileo as an example of someone who was afraid to speak the truth-obviously i don't expect someone to be charged with heresy anymore.

you've heard the term safety in numbers, right? no one wants to be called a crackpot. more scientists are rethinking the whole global warming deal-who knows when thing will tilt in the other direction? if in a few years time, the majority of scientists said there's no man made global warming, will you be content with that? how much is science, and how much is jumping on the bandwagon? the fact that scientists change sides has got to make you wonder just how much real science is involved-at least it does me. science is supposed to be based on facts, not beliefs-which is probably why some call it the 'new religion'.

We are talking about 700 scientists worldwide!!!! Do you understand how small of a number that is? You can find far more than 700 people that don't believe we landed on the moon. And today's society is completely different than from in Galileo's time. Back then you were executed if you went against the common belief. Now the only way to make your name is to go against the common belief. And how about all the scientists that spoke up for man made global warming in the early days that were ridiculed by the media and turned out to be right? Weren't they also afraid of being called a crackpot (which many of them were)?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

We are talking about 700 scientists worldwide!!!! Do you understand how small of a number that is? You can find far more than 700 people that don't believe we landed on the moon. And today's society is completely different than from in Galileo's time. Back then you were executed if you went against the common belief. Now the only way to make your name is to go against the common belief. And how about all the scientists that spoke up for man made global warming in the early days that were ridiculed by the media and turned out to be right? Weren't they also afraid of being called a crackpot (which many of them were)?

Exactly how many people are experts in this field? Have any idea? How many top universities are there in the world that have a sciences dept that study this issue in depth? Surely you dont think that there are tens of thousands of experts in this field? Outside of a university or govt setting, how many of these type of people have positions?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not a 'majority rules' argument??? i wonder if more would step forward if they didn't fear a backlash. galileo was right, but denied his own correct findings to avoid being burned at the stake.

There are none to step forward..I bet that half the ones that did don't even believe what they are saying but are just doing it hoping for the PR. Arguing the dollars allocated for GW, allocated for windmills, etc is wrong is one thing,...arguing that it doesn't exist is like saying the Earth is flat...or maybe Columbus is still wrong...

There are people who like to stir the pot
because they want you to believe they are challenging
the status quo by innovative thought. And it is anything
but innovative, it is a purposeful attempt to go against
popular thought for the sake of the attempt, not because
they have crucial insight.


There are evolutionary biologists that refute
that populations of organisms change through time.

Originally Posted by joeydb
In addition,
1. whether you believe in "Global Warming" or not,

The Earth's average temperature has clearly increased over at least the past 50 years.

2. we in the Northeast are having one of the
coolest starts to summer in recent memoryand last year was one where there was not one 100 degree day.

We are having horrible droughts in Texas and it is much hotter and its only June.

You do not look at one place on the earth and make a declaration about the entire Earth, most of which is covered by water. My example is as silly as yours.

3. Any of you guys ever see something that is heated and spontaneously cools on its own, just to reheat again at record levels?

yes. When I turn my oven on it heats (electrical energy turned to heat energy). When I turn it off, it "spontaneously" loses heat to the surroundings in my house because the surroundings are at a lower temperature. There is a chance that my oven will get even hotter (after I turn it off)and that every atom with high kinetic energy (high temp) will gather in one spot within the oven. But it is incredibly improbable.

And what you are trying to say in the last part... I have not a clue. I will just add that the earth has clearly gone through hot and cold periods without God or man directing it to do so. What are you saying?

4. No, because such things don't happen in the physical universe -- the phenomenon does not exist.

WHAtttt?

What phenomenon does not exist?

[Danzig]

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02.


that's a line from the wsj article cannon posted...

Originally Posted by Danzig

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02.


that's a line from the wsj article cannon posted...

That inconvenient truth is what is happening in one particular layer
of the earth's atmosphere. So it is accurate. But other layers lead
to a diff. picture. And for at least the last 50 years the earth's average
atmospheric temperature has gone up.

The author should stick to the argument that the cap and trade
does nothing to effect climate change. Picking a time period showing
relative stability in one layer is disingenious imo, especially when particulate
pollutants (which have increased) in that layer might play a major role in the convenient time period chosen.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

But didn't you read the article? There are a whole 700 scientists worldwide estimated to be skeptics of man made global warming. I don't know what could be more conclusive. Oh, wait, I do, if there weren't 99% on the other side.

Thanks climate expert!