Rampillion!!!!!!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

especially at 4:55 am

Funny how when Mo tells it like it is..Folks get awful quite. You want me to tell you I am not looking to steal next week at PID with a dog Pa Bred that I bought for 6k.. I can't and won't. I will tell you that it is the biggest waste of money that the industry continues to afford. Imagine Chuck a piece of crap Macho Uno that DrugS and I bought for 6k is going to be 4/5 for 44k.. And how does this help racing long term? The industry figures will take the 25k and reinvest it in 2 grooms jobs for a year? lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Funny how when Mo tells it like it is..Folks get awful quite. You want me to tell you I am not looking to steal next week at PID with a dog Pa Bred that I bought for 6k.. I can't and won't. I will tell you that it is the biggest waste of money that the industry continues to afford. Imagine Chuck a piece of crap Macho Uno that DrugS and I bought for 6k is going to be 4/5 for 44k.. And how does this help racing long term? The industry figures will take the 25k and reinvest it in 2 grooms jobs for a year? lol

It keeps owners in the game? I suppose you would prefer that slot money went Donald Trump, Steve Wynn or another casino owner? Or better yet, to the never ending black hole of state govt? Think that race is gonna be bad, check out the third at Indiana on th 29th.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It keeps owners in the game? I suppose you would prefer that slot money went Donald Trump, Steve Wynn or another casino owner? Or better yet, to the never ending black hole of state govt? Think that race is gonna be bad, check out the third at Indiana on th 29th.

Chuck you shouldn't be able to buy a a Gary Truman pig in California for 6.5k that suxs and be 4/5 in a 45k Pa bred race

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck you shouldn't be able to buy a a Gary Truman pig in California for 6.5k that suxs and be 4/5 in a 45k Pa bred race

Is that Eddie Truman's brother? If so, and he's as bad with his stock as Eddie, I'd be shocked if that horse can walk.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck you shouldn't be able to buy a a Gary Truman pig in California for 6.5k that suxs and be 4/5 in a 45k Pa bred race

Who exactly does this hurt?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It keeps owners in the game? I suppose you would prefer that slot money went Donald Trump, Steve Wynn or another casino owner? Or better yet, to the never ending black hole of state govt? Think that race is gonna be bad, check out the third at Indiana on th 29th.

Chuck these are bad horses very bad horses slow horses horses that have no business being exploited. Use the slot money wisely. Delving out 45k to completely horrenedous stock is BS. You are encourageing me to drop a foal in Pa that might have a BSF potential of 75? This is good? Should Gary and I be rewarded by dropping in Pa. with a foal that is bred to be fair? Look if the foal turns out to be Seattle Slew great and we will all sing Kumbyya but most likely will need to run a 67 BSF to win 29k???? There is something very wrong with that message.. 4 to 6 open horse run in two other then.. 17 drop in for a mdn spl at PID in a Pa bred race and 5 cant run a 40 Beyer.. Not exactly intelligent use of slot dollars..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck these are bad horses very bad horses slow horses horses that have no business being exploited. Use the slot money wisely. Delving out 45k to completely horrenedous stock is BS. You are encourageing me to drop a foal in Pa that might have a BSF potential of 75? This is good? Should Gary and I be rewarded by dropping in Pa. with a foal that is bred to be fair? Look if the foal turns out to be Seattle Slew great and we will all sing Kumbyya but most likely will need to run a 67 BSF to win 29k???? There is something very wrong with that message.. 4 to 6 open horse run in two other then.. 17 drop in for a mdn spl at PID in a Pa bred race and 5 cant run a 40 Beyer.. Not exactly intelligent use of slot dollars..

How exactly are horses being exploited? What would you do with the slot money? The breeding program in PA has been hugely effected in a positive manner. People are sending mares there, there are new farms opening up, more foals raised there. More hay being sold, more money being spent. PA breds may be bad now but will improve as better stock moves into the state. One of the reasons that there are short fields everywhere is that a lot of owners cant afford to keep horses in training. At least at tracks with slots an owner has a chance at getting some of his money back. You do realize that PA made the tracks guarantee that they ran a certain number of statebred races in order to make their breeding program more attractive. What should they do with the slot dollars?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How exactly are horses being exploited? What would you do with the slot money? The breeding program in PA has been hugely effected in a positive manner. People are sending mares there, there are new farms opening up, more foals raised there. More hay being sold, more money being spent. PA breds may be bad now but will improve as better stock moves into the state. One of the reasons that there are short fields everywhere is that a lot of owners cant afford to keep horses in training. At least at tracks with slots an owner has a chance at getting some of his money back. You do realize that PA made the tracks guarantee that they ran a certain number of statebred races in order to make their breeding program more attractive. What should they do with the slot dollars?

Ok keep going you started the storybook and got to the middle of the book. Right now it sounds like a fairy tale the book ends like a horror story.
Ok so its in vogue to USE PA. and its slots so owners now rush to land of milk and honey.. They drop in Pa, race in Pa., buy hay in Pa, and in turn Pa.'s slots subsidizes the sport not its patrons ... Chapter 6 now sees Pa artificially expand there industry as owners and business folks rush to grab the 45k mdn spl money, and all those must run pa races, and must spend dollars. Chapter 7 Ohio gets slots, Chapter 8, WV get more agressive to get more slot revenus and expands and makes slots more attractive with better pay outs because their horseman lobby that the once 19k 5 claimer race is now running for 6200, and the horses are gone. Chapter 9 PID and Philly Park, start to feel the competition there programs start to decline because the players are wiped out or in WV. Chapter 10 oops we have a ton of horses and now the 44k mdn spl is 25k and the hay guy isn't delivering hay. Chapter 11 HBO revisits the kill pen guy since there are so many horses that chased the slot dollars that aren't there anymore..

Basically it irresponsible to expand a business especially a business that on its on merits is currently broke by throwing money at it. It's like that commercial where they just thru money at any issue. Slots are the same thing 5 hour energy drink that has you crashing and feeling crappy then before you took it.

While I respect everyone opinion here that isn't a RA RA go baby go, love you girl fan. I fail to understand why if you love something as much as I do that you could continue to let it to destroy itself with foolish concepts. Listening to Tony Black laud how Delaware Park was saved by slots Yada Yada Yada is beyond insane. Delaware Park while lovely and somewhat historic, Steve don't get all mysty eyed with me now, is basically an operation that will close its doors the minute Slots/ gambling wain in there existence. The minute that the state and or citizens of the state decide to use the land for something that is better its over johnny. When Steve posted Nerud's thoughts on the future of NY racing it was a plan. While it may have be wrong(i really dont know) at least it was a cogent plan. The state governments need to help develop industry and racing should be one that has appeal to all. What racing needs is a plan a plan that they can hang their hat on and present to elected officials. One that tells officials if you give us ex dollars each year for a period of time we are going to invest those dollars in a manner that will return X dollars in tax revenue and X job etc. etc. It needs someone to run it like a business not a like a kid in a candy store (slots) swallowing as much candy as it can as fast as it can and then calling the trip to the Dr a revenue producer or calling the new candy salesman a new sustainable job.

I always hope that when reading posts and spending time exploring these issues I get inspired by someone who has an idea or plan. Hopefully people use these boards as mechanisms to interact and inject like on the subject. As Steve Byk can explain, much of the common law we have in society today is because off the expansive arguing and discussions of Talmudic study. You have to open the wound and let people figure out how to heal it. You cant just keep covering it up with money hoping it will go away. If that isn't love then I guess I will never know love.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Funny how when Mo tells it like it is..Folks get awful quite. You want me to tell you I am not looking to steal next week at PID with a dog Pa Bred that I bought for 6k.. I can't and won't. I will tell you that it is the biggest waste of money that the industry continues to afford. Imagine Chuck a piece of crap Macho Uno that DrugS and I bought for 6k is going to be 4/5 for 44k.. And how does this help racing long term? The industry figures will take the 25k and reinvest it in 2 grooms jobs for a year? lol

Yes Freddy. People are 'quite'... Quite exasperated. Quite exhausted. Quite confounded. Tough to respond to someone that is making points on both sides of the discussion as you seem to be doing.

The fundamental issue here is whether you accept that the tithe money from alternate gaming that goes to racing interests is justifiable or not. Many accept that racing is the grandfather and standard-setter for gambling in this country for more than a century. As such, and as an agri-business with renewable and sustainable resources that give it an edge on the casino industry, it is entitled to 'wet its' beak' off the other modern gaming options.

You don't agree based seemingly on moral principals and a somewhat strange view point based on the quality of the competition the revenue bolsters. Fine. I don't think casino games like Acey Duecy, Pagow Poker, Wheel of Fortune or the slots themselves and scratch off Lottery tickets constitute 'quality competition' or 'entertainment value' myself, but I don't begrudge those that partake.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yes Freddy. People are 'quite'... Quite exasperated. Quite exhausted. Quite confounded. Tough to respond to someone that is making points on both sides of the discussion as you seem to be doing.

The fundamental issue here is whether you accept that the tithe money from alternate gaming that goes to racing interests is justifiable or not. Many accept that racing is the grandfather and standard-setter for gambling in this country for more than a century. As such, and as an agri-business with renewable and sustainable resources that give it an edge on the casino industry, it is entitled to 'wet its' beak' off the other modern gaming options.

You don't agree based seemingly on moral principals and a somewhat strange view point based on the quality of the competition the revenue bolsters. Fine. I don't think casino games like Acey Duecy, Pagow Poker, Wheel of Fortune or the slots themselves and scratch off Lottery tickets constitute 'quality competition' or 'entertainment value' myself, but I don't begrudge those that partake.

I will take the money if I can make it. I am not a fool if I can earn I will Steve. I have never repped I wouldn't.

The revenue is misdirected in fact misdirected is a horrible choice of words it is directionless. There is no plan, accept how to give the money away. There isn't a methodology to invest it into the industry. Use it or lose it dump it into the purses and into breeders awards and tell the wolves to come and get it. Then when all the lambs are slaughtered and dead there is nothing left to eat.
Its funny all the slot arguments are based on entitlement. Either we are entitled because they have them or we are entitled because you have other gambling. Nobody says the industry can be viable if we invest with our state government correctly to build a strong product.. Nope folks want there pound of flesh they want it now they want to eat it and then when they are hungry again they want more. They don't want to plow the fields. water the soil, fertilize the land, and wait for the harvest..Nope they just gotta have those fast bucks.

Everybody is so worried about Ky not having a few meets and how adversely effected the breeders and other jobs in the industry will exist. I leave in Central Jersey the once hot bed of Standard bred racing..Lots of farms lots of jobs and lots of horses are gone,, they went to were the better money was from slots because the teet money from AC is drying up. I guess that is what happens when the proliteration of too much gambling hits an industry that subsidizes it..And you want this to continue so in 5 years KY is in the same mess that others have fallen into..

How about biting the bullet.Less racing date less meets less jobs less trainers less owners and please fewer horses. Then you get to a point were strong owners come in to the land scape. Either partnerships like DT were 500 people invest 1000 buck each to buy 2 to 4 well bred horses from stallions who raced till they were 4 and were sound. Were you have allocated 36k a year for trainer expense and all recognize the risks in advance. Or owners that like in 1934 have more then enough money to fund there HOBBY correctly. How about then the product might attract genuine interst becase the horses that are running need to be fast and sound because there are limited venues and dates. The weak wil fail the strong will survive the industry will become more piopular with a stronger centralized fan base. And perhaps betting the sport will become entertaining an popular again?

BTW did KY not having slots help handle decline 1 billion last year.. I suggest if handle goes up you don't have to worry about other industry supporting yours. Worry about the friggin handle and the industry will prosper in due time.

Amazing you spent endless hours on slots and why EVERYBODY needs them. And in one fleeting minute all those babies crying for their bottle could have been silienced if they explored the answer to increasing the handle.

[gales0678]

freddy - what about yonkers, tell me that slots are not helping there and that they aren't going to help in the future

yonkers is now the most profitable casino in the state of ny

it's working freddymo , it's working

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by gales0678

freddy - what about yonkers, tell me that slots are not helping there and that they aren't going to help in the future

yonkers is now the most profitable casino in the state of ny

it's working freddymo , it's working

It always works in the beginning.. AC used to be crowed in the beginning you waited in back of people to get at a table. Foxwoods was incredibly business..then the river boat etc etc. they all get less and less successful with time or a better way to explain it as the population that they draw from gets wiped out the numbers go down, especially as more and more competition comes into the arena. Meadowlands is a ghost town now used to be the mecca of Standard bred racing why..Chester Pa Dover De Yonkers NY.. I am not suggesting Meadowlands needs slots just saying the sport moved to the money. When the money stops flowing whats the plan going to be then? Or do we just keep following the new slot populations.. I guess Utah will be the last stop in 2027.lol

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by freddymo

It always works in the beginning.. AC used to be crowed in the beginning you waited in back of people to get at a table. Foxwoods was incredibly business..then the river boat etc etc. they all get less and less successful with time or a better way to explain it as the population that they draw from gets wiped out the numbers go down, especially as more and more competition comes into the arena. Meadowlands is a ghost town now used to be the mecca of Standard bred racing why..Chester Pa Dover De Yonkers NY.. I am not suggesting Meadowlands needs slots just saying the sport moved to the money. When the money stops flowing whats the plan going to be then? Or do we just keep following the new slot populations.. I guess Utah will be the last stop in 2027.lol

you points are well taken , from my standpoint though , what looked like a facility that was going to go under has seen a dramatic turnaround.

granted all the folks are not in love with the new slots players that are now in town hanging around , but, the metro area has a population that can keep them coming in for years to come in my opinion. the size of the faciltiy will eventually allow them to add a hotel and more restaurants, perhap card games will be coming next.

there is no question that AC is hurting , the fringe/marginal player is not going there when yonkers is right in their backyard.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by gales0678

you points are well taken , from my standpoint though , what looked like a facility that was going to go under has seen a dramatic turnaround.

granted all the folks are not in love with the new slots players that are now in town hanging around , but, the metro area has a population that can keep them coming in for years to come in my opinion. the size of the faciltiy will eventually allow them to add a hotel and more restaurants, perhap card games will be coming next.

there is no question that AC is hurting , the fringe/marginal player is not going there when yonkers is right in their backyard.

So when Aqueduct gets slots or VLT's Yonkers isn't going to be hurt? After Aqueduct it will be Monmouth or some casino in Long Island or maybe a bigger Casino at Monticello. Yonkers will build a bunch of crap to accomodate the slot folks and by then there will be more slots and that stuff will turn to crap along with horses

[phystech]

Freddy, everything has to start somewhere and it usually takes one person to start things.

With that in mind, I think you ought to put your foot down and not run your horses for purses supported by slots money. You have a very valid point about the horses at Delpark on Tues - even though I think you picked the wrong thread to voice your opinion - but to rail against those horses, and then turn around and to do the same thing with your horse would make you...... oh, what's the word I'm looking for.......um,..... a hypocrite!!!!

Start the movement Freddy!! Set the example!! Don't run that $6k pig you've got in the barn for slots-fueled purse money. Show the tracks you simply won't stoop to the level of cashing the winner's share of a $44k purse. Be the one that stands up for what you think is right and find that $8k purse that's unsupported by slots money. A real man acts - a weak one follows the flock.

I know you'll do what is right!!!!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by phystech

Freddy, everything has to start somewhere and it usually takes one person to start things.

With that in mind, I think you ought to put your foot down and not run your horses for purses supported by slots money. You have a very valid point about the horses at Delpark on Tues - even though I think you picked the wrong thread to voice your opinion - but to rail against those horses, and then turn around and to do the same thing with your horse would make you...... oh, what's the word I'm looking for.......um,..... a hypocrite!!!!

Start the movement Freddy!! Set the example!! Don't run that $6k pig you've got in the barn for slots-fueled purse money. Show the tracks you simply won't stoop to the level of cashing the winner's share of a $44k purse. Be the one that stands up for what you think is right and find that $8k purse that's unsupported by slots money. A real man acts - a weak one follows the flock.

I know you'll do what is right!!!!

I have no problem racing the filly at PID. Never repped I wouldn't or that I wouldn't cash the check the minute it was given to me(can't wait for that slot money). As for being a hypocrite I guess you can choose to call me one. I never had issue with the exploitation of the money, what sane person wouldn't grab low hanging fruit. I had issue with the advent of racing electing to covet slots vs. consolidation and a more comprehensive long term plan. Trust me in a few years will have to go to another NEW SLOT location as PID will be a ghost town for people and horses..

Of course I made good points about what is wrong with racing. And again I never had issue with "the pill" running at Delaware and was most happy she won in such fine form. I never was disrespectfully to the stable or there decision to run or more importantly the fine effort "the pill" gave of herself.