LITF update.....

[Phalaris1913]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

So says the resident a sshole of everthing sentient...

You're the idiot who trashed the horse after his loss in Florida, saying he had no excuse.

Try some chemo on yourself, or else at least try to get the teeny light bulb to go on in your meekly endowed mind.

In any event, keep up the good work. Just when we all think your idiocy has plateaued, you seem to reach back and ratchet it up notch!

I'm sorry, I too have to look to the side of questioning whether this treatment is the right thing for the horse. We humans have the idea that prolonging life at any cost, including physical discomfort, is the appropriate course of action. We fear death above everything, including pain and suffering, and consider it noble to endure anything it takes to get whatever extra time we can, no matter how much that time was tainted by physical misery.

We can debate whether animals fear death as we do. But if animals do not understand the concept of death, and thus do not fear death, it follows that they would never agree to the human notion of suffering in an effort to avoid death.

The domestic animals that serve us and share our company rely upon us to do the right thing by them, not by us. We have all known people who let animals with incurable conditions suffer miserably because they could not bear to part with their animal friend - though they would anthropomorphize this as a desire on the animal's part to bravely battle for every extra minute. Indeed, they would look down at those who don't take every possible measure, every last-ditch effort, until the poor animal dies on its own accord - its life extended, but filled with pain and discomfort.

When one of our own pets got cancer, we had her operated on. When the baseball-sized cancer had regrown fully within six months, we had her operated on again. We had decided that if it came back a third time, we would not subject her to further, pointless intervention, even if it bought her a few extra weeks or months. When, within some two months if memory serves, what was left of her stomach wall (destroyed from within by the still-growing cancer) ruptured, it was the end, even though we may yet still have gotten a little more time from her. It wasn't about the money that the emergency procedures would've cost; it was about the futility of subjecting a living, feeling creature to further torture with no hope of a cure or relief. I never questioned having the dog destroyed at that point; I only questioned how much she had silently suffered after the second operation and whether we should have done that much.

Clearly, today, this moment, LITF is not at any point that far advanced. If the horse has only brief, fleeting moments of discomfort due to his condition, then by all means, he should be allowed to enjoy the life he has left. If treatments could reasonably result in a long-term cure and caused only some discomfort, then it would be worth pursuing, just as it's the right thing to do to perform any veterinary procedure which has a decent chance of curing the patient. But if all you're doing is causing discomfort for a small delay of the inevitable, it becomes questionable whether it should be pursued.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Phalaris1913

I'm sorry, I too have to look to the side of questioning whether this treatment is the right thing for the horse. We humans have the idea that prolonging life at any cost, including physical discomfort, is the appropriate course of action. We fear death above everything, including pain and suffering, and consider it noble to endure anything it takes to get whatever extra time we can, no matter how much that time was tainted by physical misery.

We can debate whether animals fear death as we do. But if animals do not understand the concept of death, and thus do not fear death, it follows that they would never agree to the human notion of suffering in an effort to avoid death.

The domestic animals that serve us and share our company rely upon us to do the right thing by them, not by us. We have all known people who let animals with incurable conditions suffer miserably because they could not bear to part with their animal friend - though they would anthropomorphize this as a desire on the animal's part to bravely battle for every extra minute. Indeed, they would look down at those who don't take every possible measure, every last-ditch effort, until the poor animal dies on its own accord - its life extended, but filled with pain and discomfort.

When one of our own pets got cancer, we had her operated on. When the baseball-sized cancer had regrown fully within six months, we had her operated on again. We had decided that if it came back a third time, we would not subject her to further, pointless intervention, even if it bought her a few extra weeks or months. When, within some two months if memory serves, what was left of her stomach wall (destroyed from within by the still-growing cancer) ruptured, it was the end, even though we may yet still have gotten a little more time from her. It wasn't about the money that the emergency procedures would've cost; it was about the futility of subjecting a living, feeling creature to further torture with no hope of a cure or relief. I never questioned having the dog destroyed at that point; I only questioned how much she had silently suffered after the second operation and whether we should have done that much.

Clearly, today, this moment, LITF is not at any point that far advanced. If the horse has only brief, fleeting moments of discomfort due to his condition, then by all means, he should be allowed to enjoy the life he has left. If treatments could reasonably result in a long-term cure and caused only some discomfort, then it would be worth pursuing, just as it's the right thing to do to perform any veterinary procedure which has a decent chance of curing the patient. But if all you're doing is causing discomfort for a small delay of the inevitable, it becomes questionable whether it should be pursued.

Everything you so thoughtfully presented has been considered and commented on by Gilchrist . The horse's connections will not allow him to suffer, and yes, they are buying him some time . Many animals suffer in silence and express pain and discomfort differently than humans, the obvious differences being the lack of power of speech, and the concept of death . Pet owners have made mistakes in waiting both too long and not long enough . It is fine to prolong the life of an animal with minimal discomfort, but less so when depression and more significant discomfort must be endured without benefit of cure .

[sham]

Fog's connections have stated they will not let him suffer. There have been several articles recently that indicate that horses tolerate chemo very well, so the general belief is that the treatments will cause no excessive discomfort. The best scenario is that Fog will gain about two years of life which means there could be 50 to 100 little Foggies running around before the end comes (assuming the chemo does not cause sterility). He was a pretty darn good 3yo sprinter and to get a crop or two would be a worthwhile endeavor.

[Danzig]

yeah, i read the chemo is not as hard on an animal....and that they have no intention of having this horse suffer.
as long as there is hope, i see no reason not to try--esp since the horse seems to be doing just fine right now, and like they said, if you didn't know he was sick you wouldn't know it just by looking at him.

as we've seen with barbaro for example, veterinary medicine has come a long, long way. as long as the doctors and the owner is willing, and as long as foggy is able, why not try?

no one, especially not aleo and gilchrist, wants to see this horse suffer. and right now, he's not. and i'd imagine if he could talk, foggy would say he'd rather try as well, rather than just be put down. certainly no future, no hope, in death.

[my miss storm cat]

From DRF.....

http://www.drf.com/news/article/78717.html

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This is very, very sad. I don't know what else to say.

I know... I couldn't say anything either.

Heartbreaking.....

[sumitas]

he was truly a great champion.