Borel off Bird for Rachel in Preakness

[slotdirt]

JD Acosta? What, no Gerald Almodovar?

Not for nothing, guys, but the way she jogged in the Oaks, I can't imagine she wouldn't be ready to come back for the Preakness.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

JD Acosta? What, no Gerald Almodovar?

Not for nothing, guys, but the way she jogged in the Oaks, I can't imagine she wouldn't be ready to come back for the Preakness.

This could be the single greatest mistake ever made by an owner, running back in 14 days off such a huge effort, even 5 weeks is a bit much. She might romp but this romp might cost her 3-4 starts in the future, unless the plan is no more after her 3 year old year

[gales0678]

scav why wouldn't we see her next year?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by gales0678

scav why wouldn't we see her next year?

Because horses that run huge efforts tend not to last. Look at IWR, he has a 8pt top, regressed 2 pts and is now pretty much has 3 hooves in the breeding shed....His type of injury is from RACING or over extension, which comes from huge huge efforts

I am not sure what the IWR connections could have done differently, maybe skip the Wood and take the 8 weeks or whatever it was, but that would have been majorly risky from a value and stud career perspective.

RA has won her race this year, why not give her 6-8 weeks to get over the effort and make a plan for her to get the BC.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Scav

Because horses that run huge efforts tend not to last. Look at IWR, he has a 8pt top, regressed 2 pts and is now pretty much has 3 hooves in the breeding shed....His type of injury is from RACING or over extension, which comes from huge huge efforts

I am not sure what the IWR connections could have done differently, maybe skip the Wood and take the 8 weeks or whatever it was, but that would have been majorly risky from a value and stud career perspective.

RA has won her race this year, why not give her 6-8 weeks to get over the effort and make a plan for her to get the BC.

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

did the same connections give us what we wanted with Curlin ? he ran as a 4yr old , why wouldn't they run her at 4?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

[GenuineRisk]

What??? They're running RA in the Preakness? Do they not understand that these races are showcases for the stallions of tomorrow? That colts should stay with colts and fillies with fillies and never the twain shall meet because it's just unnatural and offensive to the fillies' delicate sensibilities, letting them get bumped around by a bunch of big colty colt males?? You might as well just dress them in a miniskirt and high heels and stick them in a dark alley. (Though not with Mine That Bird; he can't take advantage of the situation and therefore should be scratched anyway.)

Harumph. Next thing you know they're going to let women vote and then you'll really see things go to hell in a handbasket. And you kids, get off my lawn.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

No it isn't but I am not going to get into the statistics, maybe 1 out of 20 go against the data that shows huge jump up efforts hurt horses, especially YOUNG ones < 4 years of age

[slotdirt]

Was that a huge jump up effort or was the competition in that race that weak considering the scratches? I'm just saying, the horse was barely blowing after the race; I don't see why she couldn't run again against better competition off two weeks and a day rest.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Scav

No it isn't but I am not going to get into the statistics, maybe 1 out of 20 go against the data that shows huge jump up efforts hurt horses, especially YOUNG ones < 4 years of age

I am not so sure her last was a huge effort for her. She ran a fig that was well within her comfort zone Scav.. It's not like she tossed a 123 at them. Remember she did beat dog biscuits and its not like she was used real hard the last 1/2 mile.. Ideally you wouldn't run her in 14 days but she isn't going to be running that much longer anyway..Remember they have to breed her to Curlin before his 2 year olds flop..lol

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by Scav

No it isn't but I am not going to get into the statistics, maybe 1 out of 20 go against the data that shows huge jump up efforts hurt horses, especially YOUNG ones < 4 years of age

Huge efforts? Huge can take on many different definitions. I think it's bs, too...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

Agree. See my avatar, for example.

Injuries happen all the time. It may be tempting to attribute an injury to a training decision, but I don't think that conclusion would bear up under any rigorous scrutiny. IWR was looking great in training leading up to the Derby, according to Mike Welch. The Pamplemousse and Quality Road also missed the Derby due to injuries, as did Midshipman and Vineyard Haven. Did all of those horses race too much?

Was Rachel Alexandra's Oaks run all that much more exerting than a workout?

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Agree. See my avatar, for example.

Injuries happen all the time. It may be tempting to attribute an injury to a training decision, but I don't think that conclusion would bear up under any rigorous scrutiny. IWR was looking great in training leading up to the Derby, according to Mike Welch. The Pamplemousse and Quality Road also missed the Derby due to injuries, as did Midshipman and Vineyard Haven. Did all of those horses race too much?

Was Rachel Alexandra's Oaks run all that much more exerting than a workout?

--Dunbar

In this case, I agree with you. RA's Oaks win wasn't much more than a workout. I don't think she will have any problem coming back in 15 dyas.

But in general, the harder and more often that horses run, the more likely it is that they will get hurt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. If you had a really good horse and that horse never raced but instead just breezed 6 furlongs in 1:14 every 7 days, there is a good chance that the horse would never get hurt and would stay sound for years. It obviously would not make sense to do that. A horse can't make you any money by not racing. So you obviously need to run your horse, but you want to do evrything you can to keep them sound. If you run them too often, you have no chance of keeping them sound. You don't want to be greedy and kill the golden-goose.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

!!!

You tell it, girl.

[geeker2]

I hope they keep the jock selection suspenseful - just like the Dunkirk/POTN decision

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

Because horses that run huge efforts tend not to last. Look at IWR, he has a 8pt top, regressed 2 pts and is now pretty much has 3 hooves in the breeding shed....His type of injury is from RACING or over extension, which comes from huge huge efforts

That 8 pt top was in switching surfaces so is irrelevant. There is no way to know if the horse was exerting himself anymore running 8 pts faster on the dirt than he was spinning his wheels on the Pro-Ride. Had he jumped to an 8 point top on the same surface then it would be significant. Either way, there is no way you skip getting the Wood on your stallion resume (no pun intended).

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Scav

This could be the single greatest mistake ever made by an owner, running back in 14 days off such a huge effort, even 5 weeks is a bit much. She might romp but this romp might cost her 3-4 starts in the future, unless the plan is no more after her 3 year old year

Ok, so explain to me how horses used to be able to run huge races with only a week or in some cases a few days in between?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Ok, so explain to me how horses used to be able to run huge races with only a week or in some cases a few days in between?

they still can , but the $ involved in the breedding games discourages this

back then i assume purse $ was more important for some of these owners

there s/b no reason why trainers can't get today's horses to run as much as horses from the past you are right

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by gales0678

they still can , but the $ involved in the breedding games discourages this

back then i assume purse $ was more important for some of these owners

there s/b no reason why trainers can't get today's horses to run as much as horses from the past you are right

The purse money was crap.

It was about sport and good horsemanship...not statistics and money.