Synthetic to Dirt 'Improvers'

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Bob Black Jack was beaten 32 lengths in the Derby in his only dirt start.

More a matter of distance probably.

I have the wrong horse then, who won the sprint race the fall of 07' at Belmont. Got like a 118, went from like 100 on syn to 118 if I remember.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Black Seventeen? He was '08 though.

thx, I knew black was in there.

[Travis Stone]

Thanks all. Basically I'm trying to look into charecteristics or common traits amongst horses who struggled on synthetics but improved in noteworthy fashion to dirt. Do they have a visual trait common amongst them? Or.... etc.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Thanks all. Basically I'm trying to look into charecteristics or common traits amongst horses who struggled on synthetics but improved in noteworthy fashion to dirt. Do they have a visual trait common amongst them? Or.... etc.

Most are on the pace runners. The closers seem more likely to just be turf horses that take to the synthetics.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Most are on the pace runners. The closers seem more likely to just be turf horses that take to the synthetics.

Like Intangaroo, Tiago, and Zenyatta?

Honestly some horses are going to take to it and some are not, I dont think style means much.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Like Intangaroo, Tiago, and Zenyatta?

Honestly some horses are going to take to it and some are not, I dont think style means much.

Bingo...some do, some don't. You just can't know for sure until it's attempted under race conditions.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Like Intangaroo, Tiago, and Zenyatta?

Honestly some horses are going to take to it and some are not, I dont think style means much.

I don't buy that Zenyatta and Intangaroo moved up much on the dirt, both are G1 winners on the synthetics. It is nothing like the difference with Hystericalady when she goes from synthetic to dirt. Tiago has always been hit or miss, he did run third in the BC Classic on synthetic. It of course isn't going to apply in all cases, that's why I said most.

[slotdirt]

Tiago's best race to date was probably at Oaklawn Park, was it not?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Like Intangaroo, Tiago, and Zenyatta?

Honestly some horses are going to take to it and some are not, I dont think style means much.

None of those horses were better on dirt than synthetic.

The lousy Brownie Points was 2nd to Zenyatta in the Apple Blossom.

Closers with turf oriented pedigrees make the worst syn to dirt projections.

[Bobby Fischer]

You look at the amount of turf a horse has in it's pedigree.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Thanks all. Basically I'm trying to look into charecteristics or common traits amongst horses who struggled on synthetics but improved in noteworthy fashion to dirt. Do they have a visual trait common amongst them? Or.... etc.

Glad you brought this up cause it ties in with some MAJOR research I've been doing lately. And, I do mean MAJOR: 50 years worth of races in my SUPER DUPER Database.

My starting point is the most INTEGRAL, IMPORTANT, and IMPOSING concept in the history of horse racing: THE BOUNCE.

My data shows that those horses that never BOUNCE in their racing career are those most apt to run on ANY surface. Of course, once they bounce, this all goes out the window. There's the 'common trait'.

[CSC]

Acoma broke her Mdn at Keeneland and then won 2 straight at CD, one that included the Dogwood Stks.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

this is a tough subject and is only on a case to case basis. the breeding is not as big a deal as it may look. any horse who has the look of a contener off poly should be used as if he had the ped for the dirt.there is huge misconception that a horse does not like poly. he/she was not a fit horse last out. got a bad trip ect.dont buy into the press of people that say they didnt like the poly..chances are the horse was not ready for it [the race] and will not all of a sudden get on the dirt and fly..

[CSC]

Colonial John is perhaps the best and most interesting example, he didn't get the best of trips last year in the derby which resulted in only a 6th place finished, it would have been very easy to dismiss him as a synthetic surface horse after that race, instead he came back to win the Travers later that summer. This is a perfect example of letting biases and or predjudices getting in the way of making a winning bet, I know I dismissed him last year so what do you do? You live and learn and try to keep an open mind next time a similiar situation comes along.

[jrajf]

I beklieve that move up was on an off track?

[SOREHOOF]

Yes. Big odds if I remember right.