Ness barn raided at Tampa

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

With or without bicarb. you are going to go anaerobic.
The bicarb only buffers the pH so the muscles can
still contract and relax properly. Its that low pH that ruins the muscle action.
The protein in the muscle is very sensitive to pH as are almost all proteins.
Lactic acid is going to be produced with or without the shake.
The idea is to pick up those excess hydrogen ions from the lactic acid.

Agreed?
This is how I understand it.

Please discuss if you got something else as I would like to know.
I used to milkshake before 5K's that I was trying to set a PR for.
It never worked.

Too far. Try a 1 1/16th race.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Too far. Try a 1 1/16th race.

If they had run em, I would have tried em.
In any case, I actually kept very close records
of my workouts and race times. And the bicarb
did not help my plodding nature as far as I
could tell.

This is why I am interested as it appears to
help horses, mammals we both are, as it were.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And the bicarb
did not help my plodding nature as far as I
could tell.

Where in a 5K did you hit your "wall" - did you hit a wall in that short race?

I'd load with a low dose of simple and complex carbs at 20 minutes in ... I'm just sayin ...

Originally Posted by Riot

Where in a 5K did you hit your "wall" - did you hit a wall in that short race?

I'd load with a low dose of simple and complex carbs at 20 minutes in ... I'm just sayin ...

Never ran out of fuel in such a short race.
Definitely hit a wall training for a marathon.
A good thing before doing the actual thing.
making sure you are under 3 hrs can lead to lots of problems.

Bleeding nipples. I learned about that the hard way
also. Armpits rubbed raw... the usual torture.
Bandaides and vaseline respectively.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Never ran out of fuel in such a short race.
Definitely hit a wall training for a marathon.
A good thing before doing the actual thing.
making sure you are under 3 hrs can lead to lots of problems.

Bleeding nipples. I learned about that the hard way
also. Armpits rubbed raw... the usual torture.
Bandaides and vaseline respectively.

No wall at 5K = probably stayed aerobic. You'll only make lactic acid if you go anaerobic, and start getting your glucose anaerobically (anaerobic glycogenolysis). The milkshake probably didn't help you in the 5K, as you probably didn't get to that point where it could (a sprinter would need it).

Get your carbs, keep your muscle glycogen up If you tend to cramp, watch your starch component (too high = glycogen overstorage = earlier metabolic fatigue)

Ouch on the usual marathon physical side effects. Severe ouch! Damn!

Originally Posted by Riot

No wall at 5K = probably stayed aerobic. You'll only make lactic acid if you go anaerobic, and start getting your glucose anaerobically (anaerobic glycogenolysis). The milkshake probably didn't help you in the 5K, as you probably didn't get to that point where it could (a sprinter would need it).

Get your carbs, keep your muscle glycogen up If you tend to cramp, watch your starch component (too high = glycogen overstorage = earlier metabolic fatigue)

Ouch on the usual marathon physical side effects. Severe ouch! Damn!

The bolded is best done through training.
You can store a heck of a lot more carbs as glycogen if
one is in shape. Pasta after you are in shape.

I would go anaerobic in 5K's. 5K are very painful. 800's are worse.
Long runs I would stay aerobic but I did run out of glycogen most likely
in one training run. Got very sloppy, but it was not the painful burn
felt at the end of a fast 5K. Just overall shake and muscles dont want to
move on the long ones.

Recovery from 5K's was easy.
But from 1/2 marathons or full marathons...
That delayed muscle soreness lasted.
Big time muscle breakdown going long.
Sore for days.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The bolded is best done through training.
You can store a heck of a lot more carbs as glycogen if
one is in shape. Pasta after you are in shape.

To correctly carb load, you have to correctly carb deplete, first ...

Don't you keep up on carb replenishment during a 5K, too?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by pgardn

If they had run em, I would have tried em.
In any case, I actually kept very close records
of my workouts and race times. And the bicarb
did not help my plodding nature as far as I
could tell.

This is why I am interested as it appears to
help horses, mammals we both are, as it were.

Cheater!!!!