Just for a change of pace

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Honu

They have done worse than waterboarding to our guys that have been captured , go to your local veterans hall and talk to some of the guys that managed to live thru being captured during WW2 , Korea and Vietnam , Im sure making someone think they are drowning pales in comparision to what these men went thru. What do you think would have worked to get information out of someone who would like to blow your whole country up?

Originally Posted by dellinger63

that would be nice to think but instead they just behead us and put it on the net. Or if you're really lucky you get to be hung from a bridge and set on fire. Sitting in a box would be a start

I wasn't really asking for moral judgment, just wondered whether or not you'd call that torture. I'm not busy comparing it to decapitations...simply trying to understand what's torture and what's not. The moral equivalency portion of the conversation isn't really helpful...or relevant for that matter.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I wasn't really asking for moral judgment, just wondered whether or not you'd call that torture. I'm not busy comparing it to decapitations...simply trying to understand what's torture and what's not. The moral equivalency portion of the conversation isn't really helpful...or relevant for that matter.

I'd call it torture but I called my marriage torture as well.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I'd call it torture but I called my marriage torture as well.

Well, that surprises me based on the company you keep in most of these issues, marriage included.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well, that surprises me based on the company you keep in most of these issues, marriage included.

I make a better boyfriend than husband I guess or maybe prefer a girlfriend to a wife? No teabagging though.

[dellinger63]

I'd also much prefer being contorted and put in a box w/little air than being hung from a bridge set on fire but call me crazy

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I'd also much prefer being contorted and put in a box w/little air than being hung from a bridge set on fire but call me crazy

Who wouldn't.

But again, I don't care about the comparisons. I get that a great deal of these terrorists (or people we assume are terrorists, since we're not even sure because we haven't charged more than about 5 of them) are incredibly unsavory people and probably deserve worse.

It's a matter of principle. Do we torture or do we not? And if that's torture, I don't care if that person would cut your head off given the chance, it's still torture and we should be better than that, no?

[Honu]

Perhaps if the enemy were waging a "fair" war against us I might have a bigger problem with torture but they are not and did not . They killed thousands of innocent people for no good reason , they really dont deserve to be treated like prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention.
I trust that the people involved did what they could to get results and really I hope all of those suckers that Obama is going to free tell their friends "hey those Americans dont mess around when they capture you" so you better hope you die right away when you mess with them.

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I'd call it torture but I called my marriage torture as well.

I'll call it what it was--------brief.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by satan's twin

I'll call it what it was--------brief.

And the day has been saved.

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And the day has been saved.

I wasn't home from the wedding reception and out of my suit before I heard the 'marriage' was on the rocks. Three hours of wedded bliss......and here I thought it would never last.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by satan's twin

I wasn't home from the wedding reception and out of my suit before I heard the 'marriage' was on the rocks. Three hours of wedded bliss......and here I thought it would never last.

Thank you. I now have a better understanding as to what it is exactly that I am threatening in such a grave way.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by satan's twin

I wasn't home from the wedding reception and out of my suit before I heard the 'marriage' was on the rocks. Three hours of wedded bliss......and here I thought it would never last.

You got to spend 3 hrs w/the Nazi in-laws and got yelled at. Just imagine the horror at the prospect of walking to their house every night after ice cream. Sitting in a closed van in 90 degree weather w/a 6'5" farting smoker was the day's highlight back then.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You got to spend 3 hrs w/the Nazi in-laws and got yelled at. Just imagine the horror at the prospect of walking to their house every night after ice cream. Sitting in a closed van in 90 degree weather w/a 6'5" farting smoker was the day's highlight back then.

Remind me to tell you about my workplace sometime this summer.

Originally Posted by satan's twin

I wasn't home from the wedding reception and out of my suit before I heard the 'marriage' was on the rocks. Three hours of wedded bliss......and here I thought it would never last.

I will buy a beer for you if I am up that way.
I like tales of woe and comedy.

This subject I personally have a probem with.
I dont think anything needs to be taken off the
table when you have a terrorist situation.

If you have a group with a nuke, in the middle
of LA, waiting to blow up perfectly innocent
citizens for nothing more to kill and incite fear...
I dont take anything off the table if I get one
of these guys.

The problem comes about where to draw the line.
I dont trust some of our intelligence gatherers.
They have already annointed apparently innocent
people and put them through hell.

It is very difficult. I just cant say no never given
the situation in the 2nd paragraph. But if you keep
"torture" or other intelligence gathering methods
as an option, they will certainly be abused. very hard...

The shows this Sunday made it very clear the CIA did
get major intelligence breakthroughs using some
unsavory means. One by waterboarding. It works very
well in certain situations. In others it apparently is
useless.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I wasn't really asking for moral judgment, just wondered whether or not you'd call that torture. I'm not busy comparing it to decapitations...simply trying to understand what's torture and what's not. The moral equivalency portion of the conversation isn't really helpful...or relevant for that matter.

Fine I'll admit if thats what you want... it WAS torture.. and it doesnt bother me one bit! But I'm a crazy bitch like that!

And if I was in that situation that you posted before... I wouldnt waste time trying to tell them one thing or another... I'd be trying to put bullets in everyone's head.