Old Fashion or Friesan Fire, who's the player

[Gate Dancer]

Friesan Fire = Pyro

Nuff said...........

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gate Dancer

Friesen Fire = Pyro

Nuff said...........

Besides both winning races at Fair Grounds, how are the two similiar?

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Besides both winning races at Fair Grounds, how are the two similiar?

Basically since they both dominated at FG with average times against average fields. Pyro was exposed in the Blue Grass (surface switch) and FF will be exposed in the Derby. He just isn't fast enough. Both have similar numbers breeding wise with no deep stamina influences in the pedigrees. FF even more challenged on the female side. Any closing kick FF has will be nullified by the pace of the Derby and the extra 3/16's he will have run. I hope he takes plenty of money............he won't be getting mine.

OF way before FF..............

[johnny pinwheel]

just from what i've seen. FF has been running better than OF ,niether might not be good enough. plus your not supposed lose at 3-5 to a 50-1 shot perfect set up or not(unless willy turns out to be really good). old fashioned is supposed to win for fun instead he used himself up and came up empty. i hope he runs good staurday, because just from what i've seen i don't think he'll get 1 and 1/4. as of now i would toss old fashion before FF.

[Bobby Fischer]

Pyro = Theregoesjojo

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Gate Dancer

Pyro was exposed in the Blue Grass (surface switch) and FF will be exposed in the Derby. He just isn't fast enough.

Pyro was 'exposed' by not winning on PolyTrack? What did that expose him as exactly other than a horse that was better running on authentic main track dirt surfaces?

And the Derby is a singularly bizarre event where even if Friesan Fire runs a lifetime best he could be 6th for any number of reasons or legitimate Derby excuses. Ultimately, performance in the Derby is meaningless to everyone but the winner.

I'm not crazy about Friesan Fire's chances to do anything in the Derby, but sweeping the Fair Grounds sophomore stakes is a nice accomplishment and brandishes the colt as one of the very solid and high quality members of this class of 3 year olds.

[Bobby Fischer]

pyro was a miler ,
friesan fire has so much conduit mare stamina compared to the rest of these horses...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Conduit mare stamina?

A method of analysis developed by Bill Lathrop (I have a copy of his book). It serves as a counterpoint to the Dosage fellows who only look at the sires. He identifies major female ancestors foaled since 1900 and analysed their tail-female descendents for distance proclivities.

The methodology involves looking at the female lines of all 16 ancestors in the 4th generation. If you are using the Pedigree Online figures, you should be warned that Bill has recently complained on our board that the site is miscalculating in some instances.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Can you run a conduit mare analysis on my pedigree?

The ladies say I have a lot of stamina.

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Pyro was 'exposed' by not winning on PolyTrack? What did that expose him as exactly other than a horse that was better running on authentic main track dirt surfaces?

And the Derby is a singularly bizarre event where even if Friesan Fire runs a lifetime best he could be 6th for any number of reasons or legitimate Derby excuses. Ultimately, performance in the Derby is meaningless to everyone but the winner.

I'm not crazy about Friesan Fire's chances to do anything in the Derby, but sweeping the Fair Grounds sophomore stakes is a nice accomplishment and brandishes the colt as one of the very solid and high quality members of this class of 3 year olds.

In my opinion Pyro was exposed by facing a better quality field and not running worth a darn. I noted the surface switch because that may have also been the cause of the poor performance. Apparently, it was a precursor of things to come as evidenced by his 8th place finish in the Derby.

There is no question that the 'sweep' by FF is notable accomplishment. I'm just convinced that his Derby performance will be more like Pyro's than one of the top 3-4 more likely winners.

[cakes44]

I believe Friesan Fire is the real deal and I will be surprised if he doesn't finish in the top3-4 in the Derby, barring being stuck in the 1-3 or 18-20 hole, which is obviously a big qualifier.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I believe Friesan Fire is the real deal and I will be surprised if he doesn't finish in the top3-4 in the Derby, barring being stuck in the 1-3 or 18-20 hole, which is obviously a big qualifier.

i find the seven week gap in racing troublesome. the lack of a 1 1/8th race in his pp's is as well.

but i think he'll finish ahead of square eddie.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Besides both winning races at Fair Grounds, how are the two similiar?

Pyro was bred to be a miler, miler sire and miler damside, and he was a nice miler. Came back and won a G3 8.5f race at CD after the Derby.

Friesan Fire at least has a sire who could stay. Damside is miler types for a couple of generations, stayers farther back.

Shortening the La Derby to 8.5f (done in 1988) made it a less useful prep; all the better winners, including one Ky Derby winner, since shortening required good 9f+ races thereafter to contend. The new fashion of bringing in horses 'fresh' (meaning off of a layoff) may work if the horse has a class advantage or a sport-horse trainer, but one has to question whether it is the best strategy for FF. One would have to think that longer race in the interim, even if he lost, would set him up better for the ultimate test.