Scat Daddy or Circular Quay?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel, put me down for 1 grand. I want that bet, do you?

If I thought you were good pay I'd take it, but I've heard of your reputation....no thanks...Unless, you get a money order and send it to Byk and I'll do the same and we can do the deal.....I'll do that to prove you're an idiot....

You must think your boy Pletcher is an idiot then too because he also believes Scat Daddy is his best 2-year-old he has in the barn....has said it on many occasions to many people....but what does he know, right?

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If I thought you were good pay I'd take it, but I've heard of your reputation....no thanks...Unless, you get a money order and send it to Byk and I'll do the same and we can do the deal.....I'll do that to prove you're an idiot....

You must think your boy Pletcher is an idiot then too because he also believes Scat Daddy is his best 2-year-old he has in the barn....has said it on many occasions to many people....but what does he know, right?

Hey Sunny Boy,
Your reputation is the one in question.
Besides, did you actually CRY when you got he axe at cd? Thats what I was told.

Joel,
I know it must be tough getting humiliated and all after months of arrogantly telling us which one of the two was better, but its amazing to me that you cant just ever look at a race and not make up some whiny ass excuse why your horse got crushed. Its incredible, your horse gets blown by like hes dragging cement blocks from his ankles and somehow you try and spin it in the direction of the BC, blah blah blah.
YOU can't watch races kid, you rely on 2nd and 3rd hand info and then try to pass it off as if it were your own. And you don't even get that right most of the time. This really isn't your game.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

You must think your boy Pletcher is an idiot then too because he also believes Scat Daddy is his best 2-year-old he has in the barn....has said it on many occasions to many people....but what does he know, right?

Wrong once again. Here is Pletchers's quote from BH yesterday;

"I think this puts both horses right at the top of the class," Pletcher continued. "I thought Scat Daddy, considering everything, was the one horse that finished up well out of the speed duel. Circular Quay... is the divisional leader at this stage."

Doesn't sound to me like he was making it real clear that Scat Daddy is the best in the barn. If he considers CQ the divisional leader I believe that covers everyone in his barn.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Wrong once again. Here is Pletchers's quote from BH yesterday;

"I think this puts both horses right at the top of the class," Pletcher continued. "I thought Scat Daddy, considering everything, was the one horse that finished up well out of the speed duel. Circular Quay... is the divisional leader at this stage."

Doesn't sound to me like he was making it real clear that Scat Daddy is the best in the barn. If he considers CQ the divisional leader I believe that covers everyone in his barn.

Arl Jim,
Horses are gauged on their race track performances. They aren't gauged on their morning drills or trainer opinions. WIth CQ's win being so decisive even if Todd feels that the other one is better, hes smart enough to know that the on track battle declared the leader.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Arl Jim,
Horses are gauged on their race track performances. They aren't gauged on their morning drills or trainer opinions. WIth CQ's win being so decisive even if Todd feels that the other one is better, hes smart enough to know that the on track battle declared the leader.

good point, he may have early on thought Scat Daddy was better, but i have to believe he is really loving how CQ runs in the afternoons!

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Exactly. See that's what is funny about this whole ordeal. The FACT is CQ soundly defeated Scat Daddy, and the rest of the Hopeful field. Every can have opinions, or write essays after the race explaining why a horse they touted for two months was defeated. But when you throw those crazy things called facts in, well how can you still argue the point?

I agree and was stunned when I came in last night and read this thread. I mean if a horse wins due to a perfect trip while another has an extremely bad one I can understand someone saying my horse was better. I do it myself.
But this race, while not a "bernadini" win, was very very sound in showing who is the goods.
Granted deciding that he didn't wanna run early helped him rally into the duel, but lost in this was Gomez overreacting and yanking the right rein so hard as the approached the stretch that the horse went sideways and lost momentum and to reaccelerate. What happened was that Gomez had never ridden him before and appeared to be taken by surprise when the horse decided it was time to go. Gomez had been saving ground while trailing(the smart move) and although he hadn't asked the horse to run yet, the horse decided that he wanted to go and began to close into the pack incredibly quick. He went from 15 back to 6 back in a matter of yards and gomez was so taken by surprise that I think he actually feared running into the back of the horses he was gaining on. He yanked very hard on the right rein and you can see the horse's head go completely sideways and he lost momentum. He had to get rolling again and still blew them away easily.
I really can't see how any rational person could have seen that race and decide that anyone was tons the best other than the winner.
What someone told you about who was better months ago is of no relevance when you see an effort like that.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I liked the way Gomez schooled the other jocks in the race.

Hey Oracle, Now that the meet is over and people have had a better chance to watch Gomez, what is everyone saying about him now? I bet people think he's pretty good.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I liked the way Gomez schooled the other jocks in the race.

Hey Oracle, What is everyone saying about Gomez now in NY? I bet people think he's pretty good.

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

I wish he could have kept that 2 year old(Admiral Bird) straight. That nose cost me $2,000. It's not his fault if a horse is trying to lug in. It would be his fault if the horse came in so bad that he fouled someone and got taken down like Jamie spencer in the Arlington Million back in 2004. When a horse is blowing by everyone on the far outside, they often lug in. The jock just has to make sure that he doesn't bother any of the other horses. Gomez does a pretty good job of making sure he doesn't foul anyone when his horses are lugging in.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

Of coure he shooled them in that race. They were all killing themselves in fast fractions and he sat 15 lengths behind and let them kill themselves. If that's not schooling then I don't know what is. I only use the word "schooling" because you always use it.

By the way, do you think that he gets more run out of horses than the other jocks? I think he does.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Wrong once again. Here is Pletchers's quote from BH yesterday;

"I think this puts both horses right at the top of the class," Pletcher continued. "I thought Scat Daddy, considering everything, was the one horse that finished up well out of the speed duel. Circular Quay... is the divisional leader at this stage."

Doesn't sound to me like he was making it real clear that Scat Daddy is the best in the barn. If he considers CQ the divisional leader I believe that covers everyone in his barn.

We'll see when they go two turns...I have already acknowledged that CQ won the Hopeful and didn't take anything away from his perfromance and I went a step further by stating that he would probbably win the Champagne if entered - BUT, I still believe Scat Daddy will be better around two turns.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

We'll see when they go two turns...I have already acknowledged that CQ won the Hopeful and didn't take anything away from his perfromance and I went a step further by stating that he would probbably win the Champagne if entered - BUT, I still believe Scat Daddy will be better around two turns.....

Thats a fair statement. And i can see how someone might like Scat Daddy's higher early speed and more evenly paced style to suit two turns.
So why not just state it like that in the first place and save 90 posts worth of arguing Joel?

Evidentally, somebody didn't read my original thread after the Hopeful which is aptly headlined: "Scat Daddy WILL win the BC Juvenile" - which the last time I checked will be around two turns at a track I am very familiar with going 1 1/16 miles....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Evidentally, somebody didn't read my original thread after the Hopeful which is aptly headlined: "Scat Daddy WILL win the BC Juvenile" - which the last time I checked will be around two turns at a track I am very familiar with going 1 1/16 miles....

Well CQ already has shown he likes the track. But that might not apply because CD has scraped big days in the past and it might not be the same kinda track that he won on earlier this year. I think how each horse preps leading up to it might be the key. Todd was very coy yesterday after the race when discussing plans for both. I'm not sure which road he will take. Makes sense to me that scat daddy will be placed in the most likely winning spot that Pletcher can find. He still needs to win a grade one to be guranteed as a sire. I also imagine they won't meet until the Cup again. The problem is that I can't see Pletcher running either at Keeneland on polytrack.
So which one goes to the Champagne? Where does the other horse go? Does he elect to train either up to the BC?