Friesan Fire training up to Derby

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by philcski

Terrible decision.

Wait, he finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys and did the same thing with Hard Spun 2 years ago who last I looked ran a bang up race.

I'd like the horse more if Jones would allow someone on him in the mornings under 250 pounds...but that's just me.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Wait, he finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys and did the same thing with Hard Spun 2 years ago who last I looked ran a bang up race.

I'd like the horse more if Jones would allow someone on him in the mornings under 250 pounds...but that's just me.

I know he did- I loved Hard Spun and he did me quite well in that Derby. However 2 things stick out here- (1) he didn't win, and (2) this is 7 weeks not 6 like Hard Spun, and he wanted a fresh horse for the Derby with Hard Spun because he wanted to utilize his speed- however Friesan Fire doesn't have that advantage. Sure, I think Larry Jones knows what he's doing more than I do. I like this horse a lot, and just think this isn't the best approach to have him ready to WIN.

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by philcski

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

Not really.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Not really.

Reason?

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

[philcski]

How about the fact that Friesan Fire hasn't run a mile and an eighth yet, and Hard Spun did in his final prep?

Who was the last horse who won the Derby without a mile and an eighth race under their belt?

[Bobby Fischer]

training up is his best move.

running on that Keeneland track would be stupid.

[Bobby Fischer]

street sense's race got to go out in 1:16.65 and finish in 1:51.33
it was a different type of race and a great chance to carry form forward for a closer.

The Blue Grass could easily be a grueling race this year, nothing like the race SS ran in. It could cause a horse like Friesan Fire to lose momentum.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by philcski

Reason?

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

At Churchill with Borel on he was.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by philcski

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

Street Sense wasn't five times the horse of Rockport Harbor.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

dunkirk will run in the derby trial the win the derby by 13

[Cannon Shell]

While I think it is a questionable decision to try to run 1 1/4 without a 1 1/8th prep, the 7 weeks thing isnt that big of a deal anymore. While it hasnt been done there are virtually no real contenders that ever even tried. With the light training schedules and spacing of races, it will happen eventually. The 3/16th stretchout would concern me more than the 7 weeks.

[philcski]

Musket Man has enough earnings and also ran last on the 14th. Forget it, just train up to the Derby.

Win Willy has enough earnings and also ran last on the 14th. Forget it, just train up to the Derby.

Old Fashioned has enough earnings and also ran last on the 14th. F*ck it, just train up to the Derby with him too.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

barbero had some time off before his romp

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by philcski

Reason?

(other than Street Sense was 5X the horse Friesan Fire is)

Cuz Street Sense had a massive tool for that track.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Cuz Street Sense had a massive tool for that track.

[sumitas]

It's tempting to conclude, as RandolphScott alluded to, that coming off a career top, the 7 weeks might avert a bounce in the KD . Otherwise, with the Blue Grass you might be in form for a 0-2-X . Not good.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by philcski

I know he did- I loved Hard Spun and he did me quite well in that Derby. However 2 things stick out here- (1) he didn't win, and (2) this is 7 weeks not 6 like Hard Spun, and he wanted a fresh horse for the Derby with Hard Spun because he wanted to utilize his speed- however Friesan Fire doesn't have that advantage. Sure, I think Larry Jones knows what he's doing more than I do. I like this horse a lot, and just think this isn't the best approach to have him ready to WIN.

That same year, Street Sense had a hard race 7 weeks out then had a designed "tuneup" in the Blue Grass, and fired his best shot on Derby Day. Don't you think that's a better comparison?

So you would have liked the horse had it been 6 weeks and not 7? Really. Let me be clear, he is not a horse I would've been playing anyway, but I think a guy who has finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys gets the benefit of the doubt. I think the horse will run his race, I just don't see him getting 10 panels. But to me at least, it isn't a terrible decision coming off a lifetime top for the horse.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

So you would have liked the horse had it been 6 weeks and not 7? Really. Let me be clear, he is not a horse I would've been playing anyway, but I think a guy who has finished 2nd in the last 2 Derbys gets the benefit of the doubt. I think the horse will run his race, I just don't see him getting 10 panels. But to me at least, it isn't a terrible decision coming off a lifetime top for the horse.

Not at all what I'm saying. They're two different animals and should be treated as such. Just because it (almost) worked with a very special horse doesn't mean it's the right approach for this one.

[Oaklawnfan]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you want to see Friesan Fire "regress" in a race like the Arkansas Derby, and then "move forward" back to a new top in the Derby?

I've been to my share of Ragozin seminars, and it seem as if that is how it works, in Friedman's eyes.

This is really just conjecture on my part, but to run Friesan Fire in the Arkansas Derby would put him head to head with Old Fashion (who really needs to win) which I doubt Mr. Porter would want that. I also think that they probably would rather stay on the dirt so that would let Keenland out too. If anyone could train him up to the Derby, Larry Jones is one who can do it. IMO