Kentucky Derby Challenge Stakes

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dream Empress?

[Linny]

Redding Colliery ran a couple of OK tries in Dubai and Close Alliance did look good late that day.
Because there is an actual "flat season" in Europe, the trainers know how to leg them up off of works. Look at the G1 guineas on our Derby day. Many of them are making their first or second start of the year in that very important G1.
The Poly racing is generally far below the turf racing in Britain. I might look to see if any improved from turf to Poly and figure that they might move up more on dirt, if they are dirt bred horses.

As for one of these keeping someone out, so be it. Every US based trainer knew that there might be only 19 berths in the Derby this year. If they couldn't get to the graded earnings threshhold, it is their own fault. They chose an allowance instead of the FOY (or other stake) for Dunkirk and put all his graded stakes "eggs" into one basket. It's the risk you take.

As for some owner sending some busted up nag to the Derby, I doubt it would happen. For one thing, as big as the Derby is to us, to the Brits, it's a nice little jaunt, fun to be part of, but not the be-all and end-all of the racing world. If the winner isn't ready to run his best race in KY, they would probably just skip it. (If I owned the winner and he came up bad after the race, I'd just ask Churchill if maybe I could make the trip, sans horse.) After all, our "Derby day" is their Guineas Day and that's a pretty big event there.

I do wonder if it's permitted to ship a US based horse there for this as a sure way to lock in a Derby spot. If so, THEN I do think you'd see a nag getting in.

[Kasept]

Have to say, the more I've thought about this zany concept, the more I like it.

[Linny]

Zany is right, but I kinda agree. It's getting US players to watch a European race and maybe learn a bit more about how they race and train. It gets Euros interested in one of our biggest races. I was surprised that O'Brien and Bolger and Weld are not in it. I won't be surprised if the show up next year.

[brockguy]

Ah, maybe I was a little early in my condemnation of the field - there are a few maiden winners that could go only to better things, im just disappointed that there isnt really any proven group performers chancing their luck or indeed any Irish entrants. We'll know much more tomorrow, but if this years winner is as good as last year's (Campanologist), that would be grand!

Early betting on Betfair is favouring Mafaaz over Haashed.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Have to say, the more I've thought about this zany concept, the more I like it.

May I be so bold as to ask why?

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by justindew

May I be so bold as to ask why?

May I do the same?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by justindew

May I be so bold as to ask why?

Obviously it can promote interest internationally which can increase publicity, awareness and handle.. Like the Breeders' Cup Double Santa Anita caper designed to get more Euros to nominate foals, it has potential to morph into Euro outfits targeting the rich Triple Crown trail, (easily negotiated now via synthetic surfaces for your turfy type), and pay the $600 nom fee for their sophs.

It's a crazy idea which provides an interesting wrinkle..

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Obviously it can promote interest internationally which can increase publicity, awareness and handle.. Like the Breeders' Cup Double Santa Anita caper designed to get more Euros to nominate foals, it has potential to morph into Euro outfits targeting the rich Triple Crown trail, (easily negotiated now via synthetic surfaces for your turfy type), and pay the $600 nom fee for their sophs.

It's a crazy idea which provides an interesting wrinkle..

All of that may be true, but I wonder how Europeans will take to America's parimutuel wagering. Aren't they more inclined to wager with bookies when given the option? I don't know the answer to that.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Pari-mutuel wagering isn't a huge deal over there.

Most of the money goes through the books.

[Danzig]

i don't see it as necessarily being a bad thing. look at the 20th horse entered the last however many years-how many of them ended up making any kind of a splash? if this works in churchills favor and generates more interest-and maybe better horses from overseas- i see nothing wrong with it.

[brockguy]

James Wiloughby gives a fantastic write up of this race in the racingpost for those to see.

http://www.racingpost.com/blog/horse...llenge/170901/

an interesting quote from it:

"The race carries prize-money of £80,000 ($112,000) plus a guaranteed berth in the field at Churchill Downs and a further $100,000 bonus to cover expenses if a runner makes the trip.
This is a lavish prize and deserves a better field than that assembled. Without pre-judging the lightly raced contenders, this innovation may prove dubious if it cannot attract horses with smart form and sufficient experience to give a good account in Kentucky."

"Rightly or wrongly, opponents of giving the winner of this conditions race a guaranteed berth in the Derby at the expense of a US runner with Graded stakes form may have a field day if certain runners are successful."

On Betfair now, the apparent 2nd Maktoum horse Haashed is 3.4-1 with Mafaaz 3.8-1 and Close Alliance 5-1.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't see it as necessarily being a bad thing. look at the 20th horse entered the last however many years-how many of them ended up making any kind of a splash? if this works in churchills favor and generates more interest-and maybe better horses from overseas- i see nothing wrong with it.

Not that I feel much sympathy for horses that get shut out when they know they need earnings to get in but just last year #20 wound up running third.