Brother Derek is a fraud...

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by oracle80

SHHHH, I already knew that(I know how he talks). And he's not my client. He's an often times partner's client. And hes also a perfectionist. If he won 10 of 11 races he'd bitch about the one he lost to anyone who would listen.
Thats what makes him so good, he hates losing and doesnt accept it well. And one of my clients wants that horse now badly, and it looks like thats where he will go if the accept the offer. Not another word about that on here please.

he's pretty funny that way actually...focus on the bad only that way you never look happy...
good for you if you get it done.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he's pretty funny that way actually...focus on the bad only that way you never look happy...
good for you if you get it done.

My main man grabbed me yesterday(he actually graced us with his presence yesterday) and I told him about the horse and he just said go!
He also hates losing. hes like the guy you are referring to, hates losing, and gets sick to his stomach when he does.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by oracle80

My main man grabbed me yesterday(he actually graced us with his presence yesterday) and I told him about the horse and he just said go!
He also hates losing. hes like the guy you are referring to, hates losing, and gets sick to his stomach when he does.

main man? the one with no cell service?

[Nostradamus]

Oracle, you are very knowledgable, maybe more than anyone else here, but the personal attacks on Cunningham and his father are uncalled for. Saying a horse is a fraud (overrated) is not an attack. It is just saying the horse is not what people say he is. There are tons of horses like this. My brother has called Sunriver a fraud all year, and he likes the owners. That doesn't mean it is personal.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Oracle, you are very knowledgable, maybe more than anyone else here, but the personal attacks on Cunningham and his father are uncalled for. Saying a horse is a fraud (overrated) is not an attack. It is just saying the horse is not what people say he is. There are tons of horses like this. My brother has called Sunriver a fraud all year, and he likes the owners. That doesn't mean it is personal.

Nor was my attack against Joel. And I'm not attacking his father in any way shape or form. he made what i felt was a moronic statement, I've treated my own friend Gander the same way on here. My attack was not personal, he did try to get personal then bashing a horse hes knows I bought. Are you that stupid Nostra to miss that?
read what others wrote on the thread, You act as if I was the only one picking on him. Others abused him as well. WHy not post something to them?

[alysheba4]

yeah, oracle goes at gander HARD

I've called Lava Man a fraud and I regret doing so. A horse cannot be a fraud because they don't have the capacity to deceive someone out of money. I am retracting what I said and will now say that Lava Man is overrated and I apologize to all of the Lava Man fans who I offended.

Now Joel should do the same to JJ since the guy promoted Brother Derek and was extremely confident in him winning the Kentucky Derby and even touted him for the Preakness. In no way shape or form is JJ Graci a fraud and neither is Brother Derek.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Nor was my attack against Joel. And I'm not attacking his father in any way shape or form. he made what i felt was a moronic statement, I've treated my own friend Gander the same way on here. My attack was not personal, he did try to get personal then bashing a horse hes knows I bought. Are you that stupid Nostra to miss that?
read what others wrote on the thread, You act as if I was the only one picking on him. Others abused him as well. WHy not post something to them?

I am not that stupid, and I am very impressed by your purchase of a grade 1 horse, but you always bring up his money and his father's money. The sport is full of rich people. Is Landson IV going to get bashed because Lansdon III is loaded? Others bash him, sometimes I do, but never his families money. There would be no horse racing without rich people and their children.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Oracle, you are very knowledgable, maybe more than anyone else here, but the personal attacks on Cunningham and his father are uncalled for. Saying a horse is a fraud (overrated) is not an attack. It is just saying the horse is not what people say he is. There are tons of horses like this. My brother has called Sunriver a fraud all year, and he likes the owners. That doesn't mean it is personal.

Exactly......................

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Oracle, you are very knowledgable, maybe more than anyone else here, but the personal attacks on Cunningham and his father are uncalled for. Saying a horse is a fraud (overrated) is not an attack. It is just saying the horse is not what people say he is. There are tons of horses like this. My brother has called Sunriver a fraud all year, and he likes the owners. That doesn't mean it is personal.

i stand by what i said earlier in this thread ,his derby run with the **** post and horrible trip in the derby and still to place like he did shows a hell of alot . lets think if he had a better post . horrible trip in preak again. like oracle said-injurymaybe-or just plain worn out from the preps and tc-or rusty- but to use fraud after one race and even then after all his stake wins is crap. so all his wins were a fluke and should have lost and his good run in the derby was a fluke because the horse is not what people say he is? well what the heck is he allowance material, claimer? nobody out here is saying he's a great or super horse but a fraud. i know who the fraud is !!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by paisjpq

main man? the one with no cell service?

No Beth, the guy who took me out earlier in the meet and got me alcohol poisoning for two days.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by oracle80

No Beth, the guy who took me out earlier in the meet and got me alcohol poisoning for two days.

that was my second guess---

I dont understand how is he a fraud. How did he misrepresent himself? I dont get it. How can any horse be a fraud. He ran 4th in the BC Juvenile, 4the in the Derby and 4th in the Preakness. Then he has won those prep races in the spring. Again, it isnt Brother Derek's fault who he beat. He cannot help who his competition is. I dont remember Brother Derek coming out and saying he is the best. If he did then I missed it. I sometimes speak too soon and talk bad about a horse and that isnt right. But in Derek's case, he has been in all the big ones for over 1 year now. He has won some and loss some, but I dont know how you can say he or any horse is a fraud.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I dont understand how is he a fraud. How did he misrepresent himself? I dont get it. How can any horse be a fraud. He ran 4th in the BC Juvenile, 4the in the Derby and 4th in the Preakness. Then he has won those prep races in the spring. Again, it isnt Brother Derek's fault who he beat. He cannot help who his competition is. I dont remember Brother Derek coming out and saying he is the best. If he did then I missed it. I sometimes speak too soon and talk bad about a horse and that isnt right. But in Derek's case, he has been in all the big ones for over 1 year now. He has won some and loss some, but I dont know how you can say he or any horse is a fraud.

There was NO 3-year-old that got more press the first half of this year than Briother Derek did...NOne, zilch, nada....just pure facts...he got MUCH more attention in the media than Barbaro, Bluegrass Cat, Lawyer Ron and Sweetnorthernsaint wished they would have gotten.....that is the facts...

The two weeks leading up to the Derby at CD, there was NO horse that had more attention and press than Brother Derek.....I know because i was there every morning....they had press conferences for him every morning after he trained....Do you think Matz and the Barabro camp had that sort of attention?....Not at all. As a matter of fact, they were all in the same barn with Sweetnorthernsaint and Steppenwolfer - and Brother Derek got ALL the crowd every day.....

...he was the story, and whether or not he was bet down as the favorite in the race (by the way, his post position probably cost him from being the favorite if you want me to be quite honest...many people who understand handicapping and how the Derby is bet called that before the race even ran...) - he WAS the favorite for the Derby by all other accounts and was labled as that all spring...

Thus, when you are a BAD 4th in a short field in a non-listed stakes event after you have been working well for your second-season debut, you are going to get PLENTY of criticism form people who never believed the horse was genuinely a first-class animal of his generation....doesn't mean the horse sucks or desereves to die, or that I am making fun of Dan Hendricks for being in a wheel chair (like Oracle suggested), it just means that he is a fraud in the racetrack sense of the word - which means he was overhyped, an overachiever, etc....thats all

Hell, if he were to run in the Travers and run foruth off the layoff - then fine -but he ran 4th in a short field and had absolutely NO RESPONSE in a LISTED stakes event....

You wouldn't sit back and watch Tiger Woods win one tournament in a year, or sit back and watch Barry Bonds only hit 3 HRs in a year without making mention or noticing it, would you?...No..

It is my job as a racing analyst to noitice and acknowledge when this sort of activity happens with some of our games biggest equine figures so that people can be completely aware of the disappointment and completely understand it.....thats my job in a sense....

IMO (for all of you watcing TVG during the race), Simon Bray was trying to make excuses for his performnace saying that it will set him up nicely for next time, etc...which was all sugar-coating bull**** and I'm dissappointed as an analyst that he would mislead the public that way.....he should always be honest and educate the public...that is his job...I don't know if he was just trying to be optimistic, but ANY analyst who watched that race could have ZERO positive things to say about it for a horse of his stature to peform like that...go back and watch the race.....Solis wrapped up on him early in the stretch and this multiple Grade 1 winner could offer ZERO fight at any point in the stretch in a LISTED stakes event.....he eye-balled Cindago - who is only a maiden winner off a layoff longer than Brother Derek's - and Cindago absolutely broke his heart fair and square...a maiden off a layoff did!!!....I, for one, expect more from a multiple Grade 1 winner who was a highly-regarded as he was earlier this year when being the Derby favorite....

Just my opinion....