3/7 (AQU): Gotham S. (Gr. III); Toboggan H. (Gr. III)

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Think of the intent. I Want Revenge has west coast connections, so he ran on synthetic by default. Pioneerof the Nile has east coast connections, and for some strange reason, they never tried him on dirt out here. I don't think IWR's performance today should change any opinions of POTN.

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.

[golfer]

Imperial Council had shown a fair amount of early speed previously, it appeared they were trying something new today by sitting last in a pedestrian half. Possibly a great idea for the future, not so for the present.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.

It makes the question a bit more intriguing, if you don't have it answered already. I think I do.

NT

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.

I think there is no connection whatsoever.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by justindew

I think there is no connection whatsoever.

Were you inspired this time?

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Were you inspired this time?

I didn't say that. I said the fact that I Want Revenge handled the dirt has no impact on my questions regarding Pioneerof The Nile.

Do I really have a radical argument here?

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by justindew

I didn't say that. I said the fact that I Want Revenge handled the dirt has no impact on my questions regarding Pioneerof The Nile.

Do I really have a radical argument here?

No you don't, and I just clarified what I was trying to say above.

I'm not correlating between both liking the synthetic surface and both translating it to dirt, but rather that if POTN were to handle the dirt, which honestly we can guess and handicap one way or the other, but if he were to handle it, the fact he beat IWR and that IWR came back to win today, shows that POTN does have some ability.

It's basic potential key race handicapping, nothing more, nothing less.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

No you don't, and I just clarified what I was trying to say above.

I'm not correlating between both liking the synthetic surface and both translating it to dirt, but rather that if POTN were to handle the dirt, which honestly we can guess and handicap one way or the other, but if he were to handle it, the fact he beat IWR and that IWR came back to win today, shows that POTN does have some ability.

It's basic potential key race handicapping, nothing more, nothing less.

I know of no one who has ever argued otherwise, unless we're talking dirt vs. turf/synthetic.

[Travis Stone]

You all are missing my point. I'm not endorsing POTN at all. Not one bit. I too think he's a turf horse, but regardless, the fact he beat IWR who then came back to win today helps legitimate POTN's ability to a certain extent. What extent is that? Who knows. Time will tell.

The derby winner is not coming out of that race. That doesn't mean that a few of the participants couldn't make waves in other big races.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

You all are missing my point. I'm not endorsing POTN at all. Not one bit. I too think he's a turf horse, but regardless, the fact he beat IWR who then came back to win today helps legitimate POTN's ability to a certain extent. What extent is that? Who knows. Time will tell.

Fine, but that's not what you said. You said IWR's win makes the "Will POTN handle dirt question" more intriguing.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by justindew

Fine, but that's not what you said. You said IWR's win makes the "Will POTN handle dirt question" more intriguing.

... we're kinda talking in circles but I meant it as if he does handle the dirt, he could be really good. But again, that's a big if on the dirt point.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

You all are missing my point. I'm not endorsing POTN at all. Not one bit. I too think he's a turf horse, but regardless, the fact he beat IWR who then came back to win today helps legitimate POTN's ability to a certain extent. What extent is that? Who knows. Time will tell.

not necessarily. POTN has the edge on syns-what that has to do with judging either horses ability on dirt i don't know. POTN might still manhandle IWR on dirt, or he might be in the back of the pack-or somewhere in between. they would have to square off on the real deal to get an accurate read on them.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

You all are missing my point. I'm not endorsing POTN at all. Not one bit. I too think he's a turf horse, but regardless, the fact he beat IWR who then came back to win today helps legitimate POTN's ability to a certain extent. What extent is that? Who knows. Time will tell.

Again, why does it legitimize POTN's ability? IWR looks to be two different horses on the two surfaces. POTN beat the synthetic IWR, not the dirt one. It's like elevating Red Rocks because Curlin won the Woodward after losing to him in the Man O' War.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Again, why does it legitimize POTN's ability? They're two different surfaces. POTN beat the synthetic IWR, not the dirt one.

exactly. also, varying distances can have an effect. one perhaps will like shorter, the other, longer. but i do think it's doubtful that a bunch of calis are going to all take to dirt. or that the horses they've been beating on syns might not be able to turn the tables later....or be able to catch their peers as they continue to mature.

[Travis Stone]

I have spent more time on this thread than it's worth. Time for a beer.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.

Why should it legitimize him any? If IWR had lost to POTN on turf, then did what he did today, would you be elevating POTN at all for the Derby?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The fact that POTN beat IWR doesn't change your opinion of POTN? To me, it legitimizes POTN a bit and makes the "Will he handle dirt?" question a bit more intriguing.

i disagree that it legitimizes potn-just because i want revenge handled dirt that does not indicate POTN will do the same, or at the same level of ability that he has shown on synthetic. what are the odds that several west coasters will all be able to translate to the real thing?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i disagree that it legitimizes potn-just because i want revenge handled dirt that does not indicate POTN will do the same, or at the same level of ability that he has shown on synthetic. what are the odds that several west coasters will all be able to translate to the real thing?

The horses that are training and racing on synthetic tracks seem to have more bottom and if they get a hold of the dirt they have something left when the real racing starts at the 1/4 pole.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

The horses that are training and racing on synthetic tracks seem to have more bottom and if they get a hold of the dirt they have something left when the real racing starts at the 1/4 pole.

This is an empty theory especially since each synthetic surface is so different.