Baffert, Point Given among Hall of Fame finalists

[slotdirt]

I think Baffert is deserving at this point, and if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

I'd give a razor thin edge to Best Pal - but he doesn't have a shot because he's paired with two other West Coast horses.

In BP's career - he was just 1-for-9 when he ran at a track outside of the Southern Cal circuit. He might edge out Tiznow and Point Given slightly as far as West Coast voters go ... but I doubt he gets a single vote outside of the West.

Tiznow was 3-for-4 and Point Given 5-for-8 outside of So Cal.

All of these three horses each had a run where they strung together four outstanding race.

For Best Pal it was '91:

* Won the Gr 2 San Fernando by 3.5 lengths over Olympio with a 121 Beyer

* Won the Grade 1 Strub by 1.25 lengths over Dinard with a 119.

* Won the Grade 1 Big Cap by 5.50 lengths over Twighlight Agenda with a 123

* Won the Grade 1 Oaklawn Park Cap by 1.25 lengths over Sea Cadet with a 121

For Tiznow it was '00:

* 2nd in Pacific Classic to Skimming with 115 Beyer

* Won the Super Derby by 6 with a 114 Beyer

* Won the Goodwood by a half length with a 119

* Won the Breeders Cup Classic over Giant's Causeway with a 117


For Point Given it was '01:

Winning the Preakness, Belmont (by 12+), Haskell, and Travers with 111, 114, 106, 117.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd give a razor thin edge to Best Pal - but he doesn't have a shot because he's paired with two other West Coast horses.

In BP's career - he was just 1-for-9 when he ran at a track outside of the Southern Cal circuit. He might edge out Tiznow and Point Given slightly as far as West Coast voters go ... but I doubt he gets a single vote outside of the West.

Tiznow was 3-for-4 and Point Given 5-for-8 outside of So Cal.

All of these three horses each had a run where they strung together four outstanding race.

For Best Pal it was '91:

* Won the Gr 2 San Fernando by 3.5 lengths over Olympio with a 121 Beyer

* Won the Grade 1 Strub by 1.25 lengths over Dinard with a 119.

* Won the Grade 1 Big Cap by 5.50 lengths over Twighlight Agenda with a 123

* Won the Grade 1 Oaklawn Park Cap by 1.25 lengths over Sea Cadet with a 121

For Tiznow it was '00:

* 2nd in Pacific Classic to Skimming with 115 Beyer

* Won the Super Derby by 6 with a 114 Beyer

* Won the Goodwood by a half length with a 119

* Won the Breeders Cup Classic over Giant's Causeway with a 117


For Point Given it was '01:

Winning the Preakness, Belmont (by 12+), Haskell, and Travers with 111, 114, 106, 117.

I think Best Pal was a better race horse then Tiznow, but only before his injury right before the 92' hollywood gold cup, after that he was a shawdow of himself though he was still able to win grade 1 races. I also think Best Pal was running with better horses.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I think Baffert is deserving at this point, and if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

At first instinct that's what I thought too, but after thinking about it more I'm not so sure. I still think so but it's closer than I originally thought. Best Pal was pretty awesome for a long time, and thoroughly dominated the Cal racing scene for 5 years. I always think of him as a great older horse but he swept the important Cal 2yo races, and ran 2nd in the Derby. Point Given, I was never a huge fan but it's hard to argue against his massive ability- his Belmont was one of the best performances I've ever seen live.

Gun to my head I still say Tiznow.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Tiznow is 1/5 to take it in my opinion.

The filly and mare three are actually much harder to split. Sky Beauty has the same problem Best Pal has ... all of her success came on one circuit and her record was not impressive at all away from it.

I think Silverbulletday should win it ... but I'd make her just 13/10 to get it.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Tiznow is 1/5 to take it in my opinion.

The filly and mare three are actually much harder to split. Sky Beauty has the same problem Best Pal has ... all of her success came on one circuit and her record was not impressive at all away from it.

I think Silverbulletday should win it ... but I'd make her just 13/10 to get it.

Out of curiosity.. how did Silverbulletday do outside of age restricted races?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

She won the Doubledogdare!

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She won the Doubledogdare!

She's 1-9 to get in this year...

[letswastemoney]

Didn't Best Pal take the 93 Hollywood Gold Cup as well? And the 95 San Antonio? I'd give it to Best Pal...Point Given didn't race long enough....Tiznow might deserve it as well....But I want to see Best Pal get this

[slotdirt]

Totally off topic, but how are Point Given, Best Pal, and Tiznow up for the Hall of Fame while Black Tie Affair will never get consideration in about 1,832 years?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Totally off topic, but how are Point Given, Best Pal, and Tiznow up for the Hall of Fame while Black Tie Affair will never get consideration in about 1,832 years?

Anytime a horse goes off at 56/1 in the ILL Derby during the 3yo season and 133/1 odds in the Met Mile during there 4-year-old season... there probably not going to sniff the Hall of Fame no matter how many wire-to-wire wins they stack up later on in there career.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Out of curiosity.. how did Silverbulletday do outside of age restricted races?

Terribly. She made seven starts against older horses and won only once, the aforementioned Doubledogdare. She was beaten in six of her last seven starts, including twice by Beautiful Pleasure, twice by Heritage of Gold and twice to end her career by Lu Ravi.

All in all, Silverbulletday's final seven losses came either to males or older females in graded stakes races.

I've personally believed she was overrated for quite some time, but the two she's up against might not be enough to keep her from getting into the Hall.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Terribly. She made seven starts against older horses and won only once, the aforementioned Doubledogdare. She was beaten in six of her last seven starts, including twice by Beautiful Pleasure, twice by Heritage of Gold and twice to end her career by Lu Ravi.

All in all, Silverbulletday's final seven losses came either to males or older females in graded stakes races.

I've personally believed she was overrated for quite some time, but the two she's up against might not be enough to keep her from getting into the Hall.

NT

Open Mind was never better than 3rd in her 5 tries outside of age restricted races.

The three times Sky Beauty was not more than 0.40-to-1 outside of age restricted races - she got wholloped each time as well.

Sillverbulletday didn't win those good races against older - but she ran quite fast in all but one of them. Her Beyers of 109 and 110 in defeat look pretty good when you consider Azeri only twice reached those levels.

Silverbullletday won the Alabama by 9 lengths with a 115 Beyer. Sky Beauty got just a 98 Beyer in her Alabama win by comparison.

Silverbulletday won 11 straight Graded Stake races against members of her own sex - and ran a triple digit Beyer in each one. She also shipped well ... which is why I think she gets the slight nod.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The three times Sky Beauty was not more than 0.40-to-1 outside of age restricted races - she got wholloped each time as well.

Giving 7lbs to Inside Information at Belmont at a mile.. not many would be able to overcome that..

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Open Mind was never better than 3rd in her 5 tries outside of age restricted races.

The three times Sky Beauty was not more than 0.40-to-1 outside of age restricted races - she got wholloped each time as well.

Sillverbulletday didn't win those good races against older - but she ran quite fast in all but one of them. Her Beyers of 109 and 110 in defeat look pretty good when you consider Azeri only twice reached those levels.

Silverbullletday won the Alabama by 9 lengths with a 115 Beyer. Sky Beauty got just a 98 Beyer in her Alabama win by comparison.

Silverbulletday won 11 straight Graded Stake races against members of her own sex - and ran a triple digit Beyer in each one. She also shipped well ... which is why I think she gets the slight nod.

I loved Silverbulletday and think she was amazing in the spring of her 3yo year. Maybe she didn't develop past that, but the races up until her Belmont Stakes race were as impressive as any other filly in the last 20 years IMO.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Silverbullletday won the Alabama by 9 lengths with a 115 Beyer. Sky Beauty got just a 98 Beyer in her Alabama win by comparison.

Sky Beauty was an exhausted filly the day that she won the Alabama. Coming off the three filly Triple Crown races at Belmont, she won that day on her class alone.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Open Mind was never better than 3rd in her 5 tries outside of age restricted races.

The three times Sky Beauty was not more than 0.40-to-1 outside of age restricted races - she got wholloped each time as well.

Sillverbulletday didn't win those good races against older - but she ran quite fast in all but one of them. Her Beyers of 109 and 110 in defeat look pretty good when you consider Azeri only twice reached those levels.

Silverbullletday won the Alabama by 9 lengths with a 115 Beyer. Sky Beauty got just a 98 Beyer in her Alabama win by comparison.

Silverbulletday won 11 straight Graded Stake races against members of her own sex - and ran a triple digit Beyer in each one. She also shipped well ... which is why I think she gets the slight nod.

Azeri's PP's, I think these are going into the Apple Blossom?
www.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/azeri.pdf