wow

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know nelson was having a good year but he isnt Chris Paul or Deron Williams or a young jason Kidd or Gary payton or ....

Give the kid a break. He is finally comfortable in his role as the floor leader
and he gets hurt. And you are comparing him with guys that have already proven themselves and were/are franchise players. Nelson will never be that with Howard. He will be the 2nd best player on the team.

If Nelson is a B, Alston is a D as a starter and team leader.
I think this removes Orlando as a team having a good chance
to go to the finals.

pgardn's rankings:

On top:
1. LA (If and when Bynum comes back, maybe bring him off the bench for Gasol) KOBE
2. Cleveland (hurt players coming back not missing a step) Pure.Le BRAWN
3. Boston (still very solid on D, very physical, and still scoring)


A way back:

4. San Antonio (Duncan maybe the most consistent player ever)

Step down again...

3rd level:

Utah (Boozer is back so a chance to move up with SA; Williams is awesome)
Hornets (Paul is the man, West is showing some weaknesses now)
Orlando (D. Howard... and shooters)
Houston (Yao and company make them very tough inside; McGrady softness not a huge problem to overcome... a meaner team now)
Denver (Mystery... Billups definitely makes them tougher in the playoffs; when they play D they can be very good)

4th level:

Portland (Roy and Aldridge... too young and Stupid)
Dallas (Soft foreheads)
Phoenix (back to the run and gun... Amare gone... either way, no way)
Atlanta (Joe Johnson... thought Horford would be a lot better on the offensive end this year but no)
Detroit (looking awful right now but I think they have the potential to be 3rd level and trouble in the playoffs if they dont have a mental meltdown... may have already happened)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Give the kid a break. He is finally comfortable in his role as the floor leader
and he gets hurt. And you are comparing him with guys that have already proven themselves and were/are franchise players. Nelson will never be that with Howard. He will be the 2nd best player on the team.

If Nelson is a B, Alston is a D as a starter and team leader.
I think this removes Orlando as a team having a good chance
to go to the finals.

pgardn's rankings:

On top:
1. LA (If and when Bynum comes back, maybe bring him off the bench for Gasol) KOBE
2. Cleveland (hurt players coming back not missing a step) Pure.Le BRAWN
3. Boston (still very solid on D, very physical, and still scoring)


A way back:

4. San Antonio (Duncan maybe the most consistent player ever)

Step down again...

3rd level:

Utah (Boozer is back so a chance to move up with SA; Williams is awesome)
Hornets (Paul is the man, West is showing some weaknesses now)
Orlando (D. Howard... and shooters)
Houston (Yao and company make them very tough inside; McGrady softness not a huge problem to overcome... a meaner team now)
Denver (Mystery... Billups definitely makes them tougher in the playoffs; when they play D they can be very good)

4th level:

Portland (Roy and Aldridge... too young and Stupid)
Dallas (Soft foreheads)
Phoenix (back to the run and gun... Amare gone... either way, no way)
Atlanta (Joe Johnson... thought Horford would be a lot better on the offensive end this year but no)
Detroit (looking awful right now but I think they have the potential to be 3rd level and trouble in the playoffs if they dont have a mental meltdown... may have already happened)

Horford has been hurt, McGrady is out for the year, Detroit is dead, Orlando is much better than you give them credit for.

Nelson is simply not a great player. Good players can be replaced, great players cant. Alston is better than a D, he is a league average point guard. The great thing about sports is that they play the games and we see who is right.

That and the Celtics are getting Starbury. Is life good or what!

[Cannon Shell]

And I figured now would be a good time to revisit a conversation Peegardn and I had last year about Kevin Durant.

26 points a game, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 49% from the field, 43% on 3 pointers, 86% from the line, and he leads the NBA in minutes played. So much for a too skinny, one dimensional gunner. By the way he is 20.

Looks like All NBA to me.

For comparison:
Kobe Bryant 27 points per, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 47% from the field, 35% on 3's, 86% from the line

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And I figured now would be a good time to revisit a conversation Peegardn and I had last year about Kevin Durant.

26 points a game, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 49% from the field, 43% on 3 pointers, 86% from the line, and he leads the NBA in minutes played. So much for a too skinny, one dimensional gunner. By the way he is 20.

Looks like All NBA to me.

For comparison:
Kobe Bryant 27 points per, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 47% from the field, 35% on 3's, 86% from the line

Whoa, whoa, hold it!
Last year I said he was skinny, shot from the outside too much
because he could not go to the hole. I also said (because I frggn
watched him play almost everygame at Texas) that I had never seen
such a beautiful catch and shoot guy and once he starts going to the
basket and getting fouled...

And thats exactly what he is doing.
He is still skinny but not the wimp last year.
He has definitley hit the weights. I actually saw
some definition in those arms. He is almost about Gervin
strength. I think thatll do.

The guy I also really like on that team is Green. He could
really take off next year.

Now as for a comparison with Kobe...
Durant has led his team to stellar 13 wins.
You can put him all NBA for big stats but
a team that is getting waxed every other night...

Do the stats mean as much? Dont think so.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now as for a comparison with Kobe...
Durant has led his team to stellar 13 wins.
You can put him all NBA for big stats but
a team that is getting waxed every other night...

Do the stats mean as much? Dont think so.

You dont really want me to go back and look up all the things you said do you?

The wins comparison is so stupid I shouldnt respond but do you really think that it should have any impact on an evaluation of a player? Are his teammates his fault? Do you think they would have 40 wins if Kobe was there?
Stats are a measure of a players performance, wins are a measure of the organizations performance. His numbers are every bit as impressive now as they would be on a playoff team.

What more exactly does he need to do?

[declansharbor]

In essence, is pgardn saying that Calvin Johnson isnt as good as lets say, Santonio Holmes???

(my gripe for pgardn not listing the 6ers in his/her list )

Uh oh, Cannon is doing some thread searching. I've read the contents of ced thread, not pretty.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

In essence, is pgardn saying that Calvin Johnson isnt as good as lets say, Santonio Holmes???

(my gripe for pgardn not listing the 6ers in his/her list )

Uh oh, Cannon is doing some thread searching. I've read the contents of ced thread, not pretty.

pgardn is the Tim Legler of Derby Trail

Originally Posted by declansharbor

(my gripe for pgardn not listing the 6ers in his/her list )

Uh oh, Cannon is doing some thread searching. I've read the contents of ced thread, not pretty.

I will list them if you give the Spurs Iguanaobamalama.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont really want me to go back and look up all the things you said do you?

The wins comparison is so stupid I shouldnt respond but do you really think that it should have any impact on an evaluation of a player? Are his teammates his fault? Do you think they would have 40 wins if Kobe was there?
Stats are a measure of a players performance, wins are a measure of the organizations performance. His numbers are every bit as impressive now as they would be on a playoff team.

What more exactly does he need to do?

Yes I do.
I would like you to look it up.

King Glorious said he would be nothing but a Rashard Lewis (which
does not look so bad this year). I said he was not physically ready
and that he was relying way too much on jump shooting. But that he
is so young and so weak... yada yada.

What?
What?
Does this imply he would have these numbers on, for example,
(and not an example I like to use ), the Spurs. Do you think his stats
would be close to the same on the Spurs? ANswer hell no.

I will tell you right now a healthy, younger Ginobili could put up
huge numbers on almost any other team. NOT, on the Spurs.
Or lakers, celtics, but on OK city... hell yes.

Do your realize just how many possessions Ok city gets each game?
Do you think that has any effect on a players stats? In every single
category, every category it makes them go up cept minutes played...
You cant have missed that.

ANd you are right about what more can he do.
Nothing. Its not totally fair. He plays on a crappy team that gets killed
every other night so stats tell us... I withold judgement
except he is so young, so long, and such a beautiful
player (I love his shot).

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horford has been hurt, McGrady is out for the year, Detroit is dead, Orlando is much better than you give them credit for.

Nelson is simply not a great player. Good players can be replaced, great players cant. Alston is better than a D, he is a league average point guard. The great thing about sports is that they play the games and we see who is right.

That and the Celtics are getting Starbury. Is life good or what!

This is what I meant when I said his soft play would not be missed.
Detroit does not have to be dead.
But I think you are right, they are mentally cooked.

I think its good for all basketball for the Celtics to get stephon.
There could be some comedy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is what I meant when I said his soft play would not be missed.
Detroit does not have to be dead.
But I think you are right, they are mentally cooked.

I think its good for all basketball for the Celtics to get stephon.
There could be some comedy.

The Rockets wont miss McGrady? Nelson is a crippling loss for Orlando but McGrady isnt a big deal for Houston? TMac may not be the type of guy who can takeover a series but he is Houstons main offensive option.

I want to see Garnett punch him in the tattoo. When KG made Big Baby cry it was classic.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The Rockets wont miss McGrady? Nelson is a crippling loss for Orlando but McGrady isnt a big deal for Houston? TMac may not be the type of guy who can takeover a series but he is Houstons main offensive option.

I want to see Garnett punch him in the tattoo. When KG made Big Baby cry it was classic.

How is Houston fairing without McGrady?
And how far has Houston gone in the playoffs with McGrady?

Exactly what has McGrady done for the Rockets to get them
to the finals?

My thinking is this.
Houston will be a tougher defensive team and
a tougher all around team without him.
Of course it hurts them offensively, but what
they lose there, they might make up with toughness.

McGrady is well on his way to Vince Carterdom.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How is Houston fairing without McGrady?
And how far has Houston gone in the playoffs with McGrady?

Exactly what has McGrady done for the Rockets to get them
to the finals?

My thinking is this.
Houston will be a tougher defensive team and
a tougher all around team without him.
Of course it hurts them offensively, but what
they lose there, they might make up with toughness.

McGrady is well on his way to Vince Carterdom.

Houston is not a better team without him. They are a flawed team which is why they dont ever go far in the playoffs.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Houston is not a better team without him. They are a flawed team which is why they dont ever go far in the playoffs.

I actually thought Kenny Smith did a good job explaining what makes the Rockets different without McGrady but not necessarily better.

Artest (usually) has no problem embracing the #2 role that T-Hack could never deal with. He will defer to Yao and run Adelman's offense that is meant to work inside-out. The players have routinely been making comments about how now they don't have to worry about certain players getting their points and how they have more attitude now, etc. McGrady is soft and that shows up big time in how he plays and his attitude.

After the Rockets presumably re-sign Artest, it'll be interesting how fast they tell McGrady to whistle dixie in May 2010.

That being said, they're not a title contender, but I will get a mountain of satisfaction out of them winning even one playoff series without #1.

NT