Gotham Stakes

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Really? I think this year's Fountain of Youth is the best Derby prep being run in years, and the Gotham looks very strong as well. I'm not sure what the hell has to happen for people to stop that yearly "this crop sucks!" call. Last year's colt crop was terrible, but people were saying the crop was terrible around this time in '07 too. I think this has the makings of a very good crop of three-year-olds. What's the knock? I don't get it. We have brilliance (Notonthesamepage, This Ones For Phil, True Quality, Mr. Fantasy, Dunkirk), consistency (Haynesfield, Old Fashioned, Friesan Fire) and a bunch of horses that could be anything (pretty much everyone in the FOY, Santana Six, Imperial Council, etc.), not to mention the Dubai horses if they ever get over here.

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

well, i think you can find cali racing exciting. the questions come in when those horses leave the west coast. some who ran poorly there will step up on dirt, and those who looked sooooo good out there, won't look good on the real stuff. i certainly found watching zenyatta run to be exciting. as for using one of them on derby day-good luck's all i can say.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

I disagree. I didn't name any of the California horses in my post. I think the level of talented horses on the east coast is way above "normal."

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree. I didn't name any of the California horses in my post. I think the level of talented horses on the east coast is way above "normal."

Way above last year for sure. Way above normal I'm not so sure I can agree with. Really a lot depends on what happens with This One's For Phil and Notonthesamepage in the FOY. If at least one of them runs huge then things get very interesting. If both just look like sprinters who freaked then the remaining horses leave you with a pretty typical crop (excluding last years garbage).

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Way above last year for sure. Way above normal I'm not so sure I can agree with. Really a lot depends on what happens with This One's For Phil and Notonthesamepage in the FOY. If at least one of them runs huge then things get very interesting. If both just look like sprinters who freaked then the remaining horses leave you with a pretty typical crop (excluding last years garbage).

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

[Travis Stone]

If most of these horses stay together, we're looking at a bang-up Kings Bishop at Saratoga this year.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

I don't believe in those Beyers for one second. If those two throw in a couple of clunkers those Beyers will be adjusted down to 95 or so.

[SOREHOOF]

I don't trust ANY Beyer for races run over synthetic for that matter. The Cali horses are fit and I wouldn't want to toss them for that reason alone. They're tough to back never racing on dirt but that's the new wrinkle we all have to live with.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

I don't believe in those Beyers for one second. If those two throw in a couple of clunkers those Beyers will be adjusted down to 95 or so.

Really? What speed figures did you come up with for that day's racing? Did you split the variant? If so, and you must have, when did you do it and why?

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

Henny Hughes never got back from Dubai in time for any consideration and he didn't run again until July at Monmouth of that year. And he ran exclusively as a sprinter.
But no one really knows whether their horse can go the distance or not. Look at Big Brown last year. His breeding never indicated he would be able to go the distance he went. Keyed Entry never ran back to his form after the Hutcheson where he put up a huge Beyer.
But Hard Spun was the most amazing horse to me. A solid sprinter who had the most endurance of any horse I've ever seen.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Henny Hughes never got back from Dubai in time for any consideration and he didn't run again until July at Monmouth of that year. And he ran exclusively as a sprinter.
But no one really knows whether their horse can go the distance or not. Look at Big Brown last year. His breeding never indicated he would be able to go the distance he went. Keyed Entry never ran back to his form after the Hutcheson where he put up a huge Beyer.
But Hard Spun was the most amazing horse to me. A solid sprinter who had the most endurance of any horse I've ever seen.

Where in my posts did you gather that I was suggesting I expect them to stretch out successfully?

Hard Spun had the most endurance of any horse you've ever seen? I take it you haven't seen many horses.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

People always want to start ranking the crop in February....which is hard to do.
However, if I had to judge it right now I would say that it looks like a pretty decent crop....maybe somewhere around average for the past ten years or so. Now, if you take an average (or maybe even slightly above-average) crop and compare them to last year's collection of three-legged donkeys, these guys look like a crop full of Holy Bulls.