CD renames La Troienne (And now renames the Louisville La Troienne!)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I agree with Steve's comments yesterday about this, and the discarding of our history in this sport. Not a good idea.

But even more, I doubt the wisdom of renaming a stakes on Derby Day. Which is more likely: a reverent reflection on Eight Belles and acknowledgement of her legacy or just an "Oh my God...I remember that...this sport is so cruel to horses" type of impulse from the casual race watcher on TV?

I don't think it was a smart thing to link it to Derby Day, regardless of whether it was a renaming in place of La Troienne or if it were a new stakes. It's like renaming the Daytona 500 the "Dale Earnhardt 500". It's not a good idea to remind everyone of the tragedies that are unavoidable in the sport.

BTW I liked Earnhardt -- rest in peace, but you guys see the point I'm trying to make.

I do see your point and agree 100%

[justindew]

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

The difference is that those horses were major stakes winners on the NY circuit and Hall of fame horses who rightfully should have had races named for them. Eight Belles claim to fame is she broke her legs.

[slotdirt]

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

I hope others find this as hilarious as I do.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

What? Commander Ross and 'Hard Guy' Bedwell are "mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses"? Where would that be?

[SniperSB23]

What I don't get is why they are naming the races after these horses at the tracks where they did nothing but die? If they wanted to name the Tropical Park Derby after Barbaro that would be fine, he actually won that race, why name one after him at Pimlico where he did nothing positive? I guess Eight Belles at least ran second in the Derby but she isn't getting the race renamed for that. The Fantasy or Honeybee would have been races more suited to renaming for Eight Belles. So, if they want to honor horses that broke down I'm fine for it, but not at the track they broke down. Rename it at a track they had success at.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Kasept

What? Commander Ross and 'Hard Guy' Bedwell are "mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses"? Where would that be?

Several times in Dorothy Ours "Man-O-War" biography, in another Man-O-War bio I've read (will have to dig it up), and I saw it first in an old magazine article about the horse (Blood-Horse? can't recall.)

Edit: Aside from the incident you mentioned, Ours discusses Bedwell in conjunction with a series of drugging incidents - cocaine - at Latonia (which caused Bedwell to be ruled off - he was later reinstated)

And Edward Bowen discusses doping and Bedwell in "Masters of the Turf".

Ah, found the original: New York Times, August 25, 1910: Guy Bedwell denied reinstatement after disbarment in KY for horse appearing "crazed" ("suffering the effect of a drug" that Bedwell later said was cocaine) in paddock before race

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...6E9C946196D6CF

(search NYT online archives, enter "Bedwell" or "Sir Barton" as search terms - lots of old racing articles available)

[Echo Farm]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

Because he died and became a big story.

I wonder if Big Brown had run in the Breeders' Cup and broke down if there would have been a race changed in his honor. Probably not, even though he did more in his career than Barbaro. Big Brown's connections weren't all warm and fuzzy.

Can you imagine what the Barbaro Cult would do if they reinstated the Sir Barton Stakes?

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The difference is that those horses were major stakes winners on the NY circuit and Hall of fame horses who rightfully should have had races named for them. Eight Belles claim to fame is she broke her legs.

It seemed like part of your point (or someone else's point with which you agreed) was that it brings up the bad memories. Do you think when people watch the Ruffian and the Go For Wand they remember the horses' accomplishments or their deaths in front of huge TV audiences?

I agree that renaming of stakes races is kind of annoying, but I think criticism of CD for this move is criticism for the sake of criticism. And I am critical of CD often.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by justindew

It seemed like part of your point (or someone else's point with which you agreed) was that it brings up the bad memories. Do you think when people watch the Ruffian and the Go For Wand they remember the horses' accomplishments or their deaths in front of huge TV audiences?

I agree that renaming of stakes races is kind of annoying, but I think criticism of CD for this move is criticism for the sake of criticism. And I am critical of CD often.

go for wand established quite a reputation on the track, and both figured to be hall of famers before losing their lives. the same can't be said about eight belles.
the sole reason eight belles got a race is that she died, that is not the only reason go for wand and ruffian got a stakes race named for them. there's really no comparison.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Danzig

go for wand established quite a reputation on the track, and both figured to be hall of famers before losing their lives. the same can't be said about eight belles.
the sole reason eight belles got a race is that she died, that is not the only reason go for wand and ruffian got a stakes race named for them. there's really no comparison.

Yes there is, if people are going to argue that part of the reason this is a dumb move by Churchill is because it will stir up bad memories.

I don't think this is a smart move OR a dumb move by CD. They are choosing to honor a filly who ran a fantastic race against males in the greatest race in the world, and then died on the track. They'll probably run it for a couple years and then change the name to something else.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by justindew

Yes there is, if people are going to argue that part of the reason this is a dumb move by Churchill is because it will stir up bad memories.

I don't think this is a smart move OR a dumb move by CD. They are choosing to honor a filly who ran a fantastic race against males in the greatest race in the world, and then died on the track. They'll probably run it for a couple years and then change the name to something else.

That's debatable.

I wonder if they'll name one after Chelokee?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by justindew

Yes there is, if people are going to argue that part of the reason this is a dumb move by Churchill is because it will stir up bad memories.

I don't think this is a smart move OR a dumb move by CD. They are choosing to honor a filly who ran a fantastic race against males in the greatest race in the world, and then died on the track. They'll probably run it for a couple years and then change the name to something else.

i'm not one arguing it will produce bad memories...but, i can hear it now- 'who was eight belles'? and the only thing of note anyone will be able to tell the person asking the question is that she finished second in the derby and then didn't make the gallop out. that's the ONLY thing of note about this horse. certainly it wasn't her win in the fantasy that got her this stakes named for her. in that respect, it is no comparison to ruffian or go for wand, who both did plenty on the track to warrant getting a race named in their honor.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

It seemed like part of your point (or someone else's point with which you agreed) was that it brings up the bad memories. Do you think when people watch the Ruffian and the Go For Wand they remember the horses' accomplishments or their deaths in front of huge TV audiences?

I agree that renaming of stakes races is kind of annoying, but I think criticism of CD for this move is criticism for the sake of criticism. And I am critical of CD often.

Are there any good memories concerning Eight Belles and CD? What exactly would be the reasoning behind renaming a race after Eight Belles except for some cheap PR? If you criticize CD for every move they make you wont be wrong often.

[Echo Farm]

Originally Posted by justindew

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

The Ruffian Handicap was created the year after Ruffian's death, 1976. It doesn't appear that it was a renamed race.

The Go For Wand, like the races for Eight Belles and Barbaro, was a renamed race. The Maskette , named for a HOF filly, was renamed For Go For Wand, 2 years after her death. At least Go For Wand had previously won the Maskette, which gives some connection.