Imperial Council ?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

So does that make you a Marty Wolfson fan now?

I'm not sure where I said anything about steroids and/or performance-enhancing drugs. What I am is a fan of horsemen who do what their supposed to do with good horses. Few trainers are given the type of horses Shug gets routinely and he does so little with them. What kind of career do you think Criminologist would have had if she was with someone like Frankel or Barclay Tagg?

NT

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm not sure where I said anything about steroids and/or performance-enhancing drugs. What I am is a fan of horsemen who do what their supposed to do with good horses. Few trainers are given the type of horses Shug gets routinely and he does so little with them. What kind of career do you think Criminologist would have had if she was with someone like Frankel or Barclay Tagg?

NT

Barclay tagg are you serious? He can't use the drugs these guys use period..Criminolgist is just ok and if Frankel would have had her maybe she would have made 5 career starts

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Barclay tagg are you serious? He can't use the drugs these guys use period..Criminolgist is just ok and if Frankel would have had her maybe she would have made 5 career starts

I'm not going to wage the chemical warfare argument with you, so if that's the path you're choosing then that's fine.

My point is that Criminologist finished 2007 looking like a very serious turf mare for 2008 as she closed the year with four very sharp turf races. What we got from her in 2008 was a narrow win in a horrible version of the Beaugay, a no-show in the Just A Game (which a Frankel trainee who has made 15 starts won), a no-show in the Diana, a narrow win in the Noble Damsel and a loss to an allowance horse in the Athenia.

If your defense of Shug is that he's an old-fashioned horseman who would never use any type of materials that the demons who plague this game have made so infamous, then OK, there are also a lot of guys out there who play the game clean. Quite a few of them would do a lot better with Shug's stock than he does.

NT

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If your defense of Shug is that he's an old-fashioned horseman who would never use any type of materials that the demons who plague this game have made so infamous, then OK, there are also a lot of guys out there who play the game clean. Quite a few of them would do a lot better with Shug's stock than he does.

NT

You never know where the blame lies, but it seems as if the Phipps Stable has "struggled" lately (against expectations). Some may say that it's Shug's fault. I think they have had a hard time finding successful crosses with all those Private Account, Seeking the Gold, Danzig, and Easy Goer mares. Their stable has had the same level of "success" as Claiborne, where they board all their mares, and I don't see Shug training the Claiborne horses any more, so it's hard to state definitively that he's underachieving with the Phipps/Janney stock.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If your defense of Shug is that he's an old-fashioned horseman who would never use any type of materials that the demons who plague this game have made so infamous, then OK, there are also a lot of guys out there who play the game clean. Quite a few of them would do a lot better with Shug's stock than he does.

NT

This seems a bizarre comment to me. What do you base this on? What exactly do you think Shug does wrong with his stock?

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This seems a bizarre comment to me. What do you base this on? What exactly do you think Shug does wrong with his stock?

Look no further than what happened with Secret Savings... A mere allowance type under Shug, once pried away from his inept claws he was a Grade I winner..

McGaughey obviously has no idea what he is doing, he never has.. just look at his horrendous record over the years. All of the Phipps/Janney runners should immediately be sent to other trainers..

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Barclay tagg are you serious? He can't use the drugs these guys use period..Criminolgist is just ok and if Frankel would have had her maybe she would have made 5 career starts

She would have been about fourth string for Frankel.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm not sure where I said anything about steroids and/or performance-enhancing drugs. What I am is a fan of horsemen who do what their supposed to do with good horses. Few trainers are given the type of horses Shug gets routinely and he does so little with them. What kind of career do you think Criminologist would have had if she was with someone like Frankel or Barclay Tagg?

NT

I dont see how you can say Tagg is alot better trainer than Shug. Maybe you could say K Mclaughlin or Dutrow, but Tagg??

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm not sure where I said anything about steroids and/or performance-enhancing drugs. What I am is a fan of horsemen who do what their supposed to do with good horses. Few trainers are given the type of horses Shug gets routinely and he does so little with them. What kind of career do you think Criminologist would have had if she was with someone like Frankel or Barclay Tagg?

NT

I never thought Criminologist was all that much, so I have to disagree that Shug somehow mismanaged her. I do agree, however, that Shug's horses get often get overbet and overvalued.