Imperial Council ?

[jinjin]

Imperial Council's last work at Payson...1/22 4f in 50.60. I like this horse and am interested in seeing him run again. He has tactical speed unlike Shug's usual suspects that come from behind. He was green in his first race, which he should have won and showed a lot of heart trying to fight Hello Bway to the line. When he broke his maiden he was all business with blinkers added...just sat off the lead and took over when Prado asked him...Looked like a new horse and really professional.

[Linny]

I can't find the chart for his win, who owns Imperial Council? He was listed on Dan Illman's "Spa Babies" has having gone through the sales ring so I'm guessing he's not a Phipps horse.

[jinjin]

When last I checked Sequoia Racing... I thought McGaughey trained exclusively for Phipps and Janney... There must be a connection somehow.

[Linny]

http://www.sequoiaracing.com/
Thank you. I remember reading about them last fall. I had figured that Sequoia was the racing name of a Phipps family member but it looks like it's not.

[NTamm1215]

I find it hilarious that Dunkirk has gotten absolutely slammed on this board but Imperial Council has been considered a "sleeper" for quite some time both here and with a number of "experts."

If Dunkirk capitalized on a terrific pace setup in his debut then what exactly did Imperial Council do when he broke his maiden in career start #2? They went pitifully slow to the half and considering Professor Z had a disastrous start and then made a woefully premature move, IC had EVERYTHING go his way. American Dance broke his maiden in his next start when he beat the mighty Aswaaq and was then drowned by Old Fashioned. Professor Z beat a horrible field of maidens on 11/1 at the Big A then beat an equally terrible N1X field on the inner. He was exposed at Oaklawn in an ungraded stake.

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

[Linny]

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

Dunkirk could turn out like Court Vision in a way. He kept winning and running visually impressive but s l o w races. When he was put to it, he came up short. (I refer to his early career on dirt, clearly he's better on grass.)

I have no issue with Shug. As a (primarily) private trainer, he's had minimal input into his stock. He gets what Phipps breeds. The Phipps' have developed many amazing "filly families" but the colts... well. Also, mares like Inside Information and Heavenly Prize who were monstresses on the track and beautifully bred have been less than stellar broodies for them. That's not Shug's fault. If you'd asked most bloodstock experts in 1997 or so what they thought the next decade looked like for Shug the'd have mentioned mares like those and others producing stellar runners. I have no idea why for several generations now those families have produced terrific fillies and dreadful colts.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Linny

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

Dunkirk could turn out like Court Vision in a way. He kept winning and running visually impressive but s l o w races. When he was put to it, he came up short. (I refer to his early career on dirt, clearly he's better on grass.)

I have no issue with Shug. As a (primarily) private trainer, he's had minimal input into his stock. He gets what Phipps breeds. The Phipps' have developed many amazing "filly families" but the colts... well. Also, mares like Inside Information and Heavenly Prize who were monstresses on the track and beautifully bred have been less than stellar broodies for them. That's not Shug's fault. If you'd asked most bloodstock experts in 1997 or so what they thought the next decade looked like for Shug the'd have mentioned mares like those and others producing stellar runners. I have no idea why for several generations now those families have produced terrific fillies and dreadful colts.

How dare you call Leading the Parade dreadful..lol

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by Linny

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

His debut was the race that opened my eyes, mostly due to being totally surprised that a Shug horse was so game 1st time out, and that his pedigree suggested he would be far more effective routing than sprinting.

At this point, ihs hype isn't based on credentials, as much as it is potential.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by Linny

I have no idea why for several generations now those families have produced terrific fillies and dreadful colts.

Good Reward was a dual Grade I winner... Dancing Forever won the Manhattan last year and was third in the BC Turf..

Pure Prize was a Grade II winner, now successful sire..


They can't really be called dreadful..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I find it hilarious that Dunkirk has gotten absolutely slammed on this board but Imperial Council has been considered a "sleeper" for quite some time both here and with a number of "experts."

If Dunkirk capitalized on a terrific pace setup in his debut then what exactly did Imperial Council do when he broke his maiden in career start #2? They went pitifully slow to the half and considering Professor Z had a disastrous start and then made a woefully premature move, IC had EVERYTHING go his way. American Dance broke his maiden in his next start when he beat the mighty Aswaaq and was then drowned by Old Fashioned. Professor Z beat a horrible field of maidens on 11/1 at the Big A then beat an equally terrible N1X field on the inner. He was exposed at Oaklawn in an ungraded stake.

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

It's hard to play the game without drugs dont you think.. Shug's barn was very live in 08 and the girls have done qute well over the years..

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

So does that make you a Marty Wolfson fan now?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

So does that make you a Marty Wolfson fan now?

I'm not sure where I said anything about steroids and/or performance-enhancing drugs. What I am is a fan of horsemen who do what their supposed to do with good horses. Few trainers are given the type of horses Shug gets routinely and he does so little with them. What kind of career do you think Criminologist would have had if she was with someone like Frankel or Barclay Tagg?

NT

[dagulla]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I find it hilarious that Dunkirk has gotten absolutely slammed on this board but Imperial Council has been considered a "sleeper" for quite some time both here and with a number of "experts."

If Dunkirk capitalized on a terrific pace setup in his debut then what exactly did Imperial Council do when he broke his maiden in career start #2? They went pitifully slow to the half and considering Professor Z had a disastrous start and then made a woefully premature move, IC had EVERYTHING go his way. American Dance broke his maiden in his next start when he beat the mighty Aswaaq and was then drowned by Old Fashioned. Professor Z beat a horrible field of maidens on 11/1 at the Big A then beat an equally terrible N1X field on the inner. He was exposed at Oaklawn in an ungraded stake.

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

I am no indsider, and I started this thread because I was curious to here any updated news on this horse. I herd months ago that Shug thought this one was a stone cold runner, and the real deal, and Shug felt he had a horse who could win a triple crown race. Shug is not the type to talk, like Dutrow. So take it how you want.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by dagulla

I am no indsider, and I started this thread because I was curious to here any updated news on this horse. I herd months ago that Shug thought this one was a stone cold runner, and the real deal, and Shug felt he had a horse who could win a triple crown race..... Shug is not the type to talk, like Dutrow. So take it how you want.

He said the same thing about Sightseeing

[jinjin]

Originally Posted by Linny

http://www.sequoiaracing.com/
Thank you. I remember reading about them last fall. I had figured that Sequoia was the racing name of a Phipps family member but it looks like it's not.

I thought this cleared it up. It doesn't really matter, does it.

[lemoncrush]

Imperial Council is entered in an Allowance Race this Saturday at GP.
8th (4:43)

6 1/2 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds Allowance | Purse: $42,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Prince Joshua Nunez E O 120 L
2 Primary Witness Garcia Alan 122 L
3 Join in the Dance Velasquez C 120 L
4 A Centurian Cruz M R 122 L
5 Dueling Alex Trujillo E 120 L
6 Two Brash Leparoux J R 120 Blk-On L
7 Lookin Left Landry R C 120 L
8 Imperial Council Prado E S 120 L
9 Z Day Madrid M 122 L

[KirisClown]

Looked decent today..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymydhReWJDQ