Eclipse voting

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2008/votes.html

Three people also voted for Bustin Stones as the champion older sprinter. Joe Rocco as outstanding jockey is another one of my favorites, as is Chamisa Goodwin as champion apprentice, and both Howard Wolfendale and Mike DeKock as champion trainer.

NT

I think Visionaire's one vote for sprinter and Albertus Maximus's vote for older horse take the cake...

[Nascar1966]

How could Conduit get Male Turf Horse Of The Year off of only one North American start? They should have some kind of rules like Canada has for thier version if im not mistaken isn't thier version called the Sovereign Awards?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

How could Conduit get Male Turf Horse Of The Year off of only one North American start? They should have some kind of rules like Canada has for thier version if im not mistaken isn't thier version called the Sovereign Awards?

I'll assume that you are a fairly new fan so I'll explain to you that horses winning the award off of only one NA start is hardly unprecedented. The list of such winners includes Miesque (twice), Arazi, Daylami, Johannesburgh, Ouija Board (twice), Kalanisi, Islington, Singspiel, and High Chaparral (twice). The interesting thing about Singspiel is that he never won a race in the United States during the year he won his award. He won a race in Canada and finished second in the BC but still won the award. The interesting thing about High Chaparral's second win is that he didn't even win his one race outright, finishing in a dead-heat with Johar in the BC yet still being voted as the NA champion. So having that in mind, you have your answer as to how Conduit could win the award. Whether you think it's fair or not or if you think the rules should be changed are a different discussion. Under the current rules, it's fair.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'll assume that you are a fairly new fan so I'll explain to you that horses winning the award off of only one NA start is hardly unprecedented. The list of such winners includes Miesque (twice), Arazi, Daylami, Johannesburgh, Ouija Board (twice), Kalanisi, Islington, Singspiel, and High Chaparral (twice). The interesting thing about Singspiel is that he never won a race in the United States during the year he won his award. He won a race in Canada and finished second in the BC but still won the award. The interesting thing about High Chaparral's second win is that he didn't even win his one race outright, finishing in a dead-heat with Johar in the BC yet still being voted as the NA champion. So having that in mind, you have your answer as to how Conduit could win the award. Whether you think it's fair or not or if you think the rules should be changed are a different discussion. Under the current rules, it's fair.

Ive been following this great sport for years now. Let me ask you this if an American won a race like the Prix De La Arc Triomphe do you think it would will the Cartier Award off of just that one European start. Probably not. I dont think its right to reward a horse who has just one North American start. The list of the winners you i do remember especially the High Chaparral's dead heat with Johar. That was the year that Richard Mandella won four Breeders Cup race on one day. You gave a pretty opinion and I respect it, but I must say I also disagree with it.

[Danzig]

there were plenty of folks who thought GZ should have gotten HOY that year he ran once, that the performance was that good.
i disagreed with that as well-i don't think conduit should have gotten it-problem is, there was no compelling alternative.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Ive been following this great sport for years now. Let me ask you this if an American won a race like the Prix De La Arc Triomphe do you think it would will the Cartier Award off of just that one European start. Probably not. I dont think its right to reward a horse who has just one North American start. The list of the winners you i do remember especially the High Chaparral's dead heat with Johar. That was the year that Richard Mandella won four Breeders Cup race on one day. You gave a pretty opinion and I respect it, but I must say I also disagree with it.

If, and BIG IF, Curlin would have taken to the turf and won the Arc, I have no doubt, that he would have won the Cartier Award...

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Ive been following this great sport for years now. Let me ask you this if an American won a race like the Prix De La Arc Triomphe do you think it would will the Cartier Award off of just that one European start. Probably not. I dont think its right to reward a horse who has just one North American start. The list of the winners you i do remember especially the High Chaparral's dead heat with Johar. That was the year that Richard Mandella won four Breeders Cup race on one day. You gave a pretty opinion and I respect it, but I must say I also disagree with it.

I can't comment completely on the question that you asked because I don't know the necessary criteria needed to be considered for a Cartier. I'd like to hope that the Europeans are smarter in this area and have made it mandatory to have the majority of your starts in Europe or at least more than one but I don't know. I do know that if an American went over and won once, he wouldn't win any awards but again, I don't know if it's because of rules or because they have more common sense. I wish the Americans did also. I personally don't like the fact that a one-time winner can walk away with the award and think the criteria should be changed. However, until it is, I also have a hard time not supporting a Euro winner. The criteria simply says that a horse has to have made at least one NA start and it's hard for me, in a situation like Raven's Pass vs. Big Brown, to believe that Raven's Pass is not the most deserving. I believe his one start was better than Big Brown's best was. Also, it's unfair to stop giving awards to current horses when others have won it without changing the system. One thing that the Euros would never do is open the floodgates from the start, which the Americans did. If you don't want to award Conduit this year, they should have never awarded any of those past winners.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I also have a hard time not supporting a Euro winner. The criteria simply says that a horse has to have made at least one NA start and it's hard for me, in a situation like Raven's Pass vs. Big Brown, to believe that Raven's Pass is not the most deserving.

Fortunately those voting didn't share this same opinion. Big Brown was the clear run away winner in the 3 yr old male category as he should have been. Certainly congratulations are in order to Raven's Pass for winning the BC.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Fortunately those voting didn't share this same opinion. Big Brown was the clear run away winner in the 3 yr old male category as he should have been. Certainly congratulations are in order to Raven's Pass for winning the BC.

Well at least we all know Raven's Pass would crush Big Brown in a fair race.

Heck Tiago would crush Big Brown in a race with pace. Big Brown would have finished....7th or 8th...if he ran in the Classic healthy.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Fortunately those voting didn't share this same opinion. Big Brown was the clear run away winner in the 3 yr old male category as he should have been. Certainly congratulations are in order to Raven's Pass for winning the BC.

I'd say it's unfortunate because the horse that was the clear best 3yo male to perform in NA in 2008 didn't get the award and instead, our "champion" might have been the third best 3yo male to race in this country.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

How could Conduit get Male Turf Horse Of The Year off of only one North American start? They should have some kind of rules like Canada has for thier version if im not mistaken isn't thier version called the Sovereign Awards?

I had no problem with it. I might have voted for Einstein personally, but it's not like he was some dominating force. The male Turf HOY was a terrible division this year.

I'm just glad Forever Together won Female Turf.

[Merlinsky]

Will people give the Pepper's Pride thing a rest? We all knew she didn't have a chance in heck of winning and it's just someone's idea of a token vote to go "Yay Pepper! What an accomplishment!" Joe Allen got owner votes didn't he? What for if not campaigning Pepper? Curlin was a landslide and for all the talk about Zenyatta, sounds like a lot of those jokers knew it so no harm, no foul, vote for a horse that got a lot of folks excited. I thought it was sweet, but I wouldn't have done it as I had a horse I felt stronger about.

Finding out about this was less shocking, if it's possible, than finding out Clay Aiken was gay.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I think Visionaire's one vote for sprinter and Albertus Maximus's vote for older horse take the cake...

but Henrythenavigator NEVER ran on the turf in this country!?!? at least those two horses ran in the US.