Barbaro (the Champ)

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If you want me to go into a long analysis on Barbaro's and Bernardini's strengths and weaknesses in their conformation I will because I have the knowledge to do so, and learned from one of the best in the nation. Carole Moore is a legend in that department. Get ready to pull out a horse judging manual or a veterinary encyclopedia. In fact, I could actually tear both Bernardini and Barbaro apart in that department. They aren't perfectly conformed from a horse show world judging standpoint, but from a horse racing standpoint, they are certainly built to run. Form follows function. Secretariat is definitely not the best physical specimen there is, but he was perfect for racing. Buckpasser is one that comes to mind, but I would have to really look into the Thoroughbred breed to see what I could find. Also, I have found the perfectly conformed horse for another breed...one that stands out about all the rest. One that the horse show world agrees is actually the best. A unanimous champion. His name is Magnum Pysche, and for an Arabian, he is as close to perfect as you get. I cannot find a single fault in him. He has a perfectly flat croup, a perfect shoulder, perfect angles, a perfect head, a perfect back, perfect cannon bones, perfect forearm muscle...perfect everything and the world agrees.

Watch the entire video. He is a legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPV-k9Mvbk

Secretariat was not perfectly built but he was certainly very, very good. I find that most of the horse racing conformation analysis experts in the horse racing world aren't really experts in overall conformation analysis to the rest of us. I have actually been quite baffled by some of the "good" conformation horses racing analysis experts have put up because, in truth, the horses had horrible conformation. See, in the horse show world, we actually have hundreds of classes that actually judge conformation. This is what I am good at. They are called halter or model classes.

OH BY THE WAY HERE ARE SOME OF MY CREDENTIALS. GO DOWN TO THE JUDGING PHASE AND YOU WILL SEE ME RIGHT THERE "SECOND TOP YOUTH IN THE NATION" IN 2003. JESSICA HARRAWAY.

http://www.4hroundup.com/results/arc...-hippology.htm

HERE IS THE QUARTER HORSE CONGRESS WEBSITE IN WHICH I WAS OVERALL INDIVIDUAL CHAMPION, YET ANOTHER NATIONAL COMPETITION. EASTERN NATIONALS IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS FOR TOP HONORS THOUGH. I HAVEN'T POSTED THESE PICTURES BECAUSE I WAS HAVING A REALLY BAD HAIR DAY, LOOK HORRIBLE, AND WAS EXHAUSTED. PLUS, YOU ALL WOULD ONLY SAY THAT I WAS ONLY BRAGGING. I'M JUST DEFENDING MY CREDIBILITY. SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE AND YOU WILL SEE MY NAME AT THE TOP OF ALMOST EVERY LIST UNDER THE HIPPOLOGY SECTION.

http://www.oqha.com/CONGRESS/hip03.html

Oh yeah, and I judge all breeds! Prudgery you are right in that pictures are can be very misleading, but video is less so. I learned a lot of what I do know from watching videos.

I agree re: Magnum Psyche, saw him win Nationals, I have a Padrons Psyche son and am breeding to a black Magnum Psyche son this spring, an absolutely breathtaking horse is Magnum Psyche, I also saw him as a yearling and he was as beautiful than an he is now! I agree also about judging show horses and race horses, it's actually harder in that show horses are being bred to be conformationally perfect, racehorses are bred for speed, anyone who has done rescue or has ex-racers can attest to how bad their conformation sometimes is, the judging there is completely different. I acually thought Seattle Slew was pretty unattractive, and Pleasnat Colony was downright hideous!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I agree re: Magnum Psyche, saw him win Nationals, I have a Padrons Psyche son and am breeding to a black Magnum Psyche son this spring, an absolutely breathtaking horse is Magnum Psyche, I also saw him as a yearling and he was as beautiful than an he is now! I agree also about judging show horses and race horses, it's actually harder in that show horses are being bred to be conformationally perfect, racehorses are bred for speed, anyone who has done rescue or has ex-racers can attest to how bad their conformation sometimes is, the judging there is completely different. I acually thought Seattle Slew was pretty unattractive, and Pleasnat Colony was downright hideous!

I agree 100%, some of the horses we rescued were unbelievable...hard to understand how they could even walk....of course many couldn't. Reminds me of my gelding Calledon, the farrier was here yesterday for a trim...as always I asked when he was through, "how does he look?" and as always he said, "he looks great, crooked as ever but that's just him!" Cal entered the starting gate 79 times with those legs...in racing, it ain't the looks, it's who gets to the finish line first!

[sumitas]

Calledon is not on predigreequery.com

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Calledon is not on predigreequery.com

Calledon's Prospect is indeed listed...but not his record! I think he had 79 races with 17 wins (one stake in Charlestown pre slots)...raced until 11, then put in a killing field to die of starvation (more likely dehydration of course)...that's where I got him almost 6 years ago.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Calledon's Prospect is indeed listed...but not his record! I think he had 79 races with 17 wins (one stake in Charlestown pre slots)...raced until 11, then put in a killing field to die of starvation (more likely dehydration of course)...that's where I got him almost 6 years ago.

Didn't think I still had them but found his race records:
79/ 17-13-13 $128,436
won: Frank Gall Memorial CT 1993
placed: Frank Gall Memorial CT 1992

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I agree re: Magnum Psyche, saw him win Nationals, I have a Padrons Psyche son and am breeding to a black Magnum Psyche son this spring, an absolutely breathtaking horse is Magnum Psyche, I also saw him as a yearling and he was as beautiful than an he is now! I agree also about judging show horses and race horses, it's actually harder in that show horses are being bred to be conformationally perfect, racehorses are bred for speed, anyone who has done rescue or has ex-racers can attest to how bad their conformation sometimes is, the judging there is completely different. I acually thought Seattle Slew was pretty unattractive, and Pleasnat Colony was downright hideous!

That is awesome. If I was into Arabs, he is definitely who I would go for! I may get into them one day because my fiance loves them! Pleasant Colony WAS horrible! No offense to him because he was a great racehorse. He had one of the longest backs and was one of the most hound-gutted horses that I have ever seen! His shoulder angle and neck were better than a lot of TB's though. Most TBs have those awful completely straight shoulders...you know what I'm talking about. It's nice to see one that is a little more rounded as in Grindstone and Pleasant Colony. He also had a nice colume of bone although his cannons were too long. Overall, he was built to run as he displayed on the track. His back is long and his shoulder was rounded both indicative of a large stride. His neck was was long and thin so that he was not top heavy. He was a lighter horse than some of the others like Secretariat and Seattle Slew and he had a good colume of bone. Therefore, he could stand up to the rigors of racing. I really didn't like Seattle Slew hip and shoulder, but again, he was also built to race as it showed on the track. It isn't so much Barbaro's and Bernardini's conformation that makes them as fast and appealing as they are. It is their presence, the look in their eye, and their heart. They just have that whole look to them...it is a look that not many horses have. It screams, "I am a great champion." Which, I think both of them are.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I agree re: Magnum Psyche, saw him win Nationals, I have a Padrons Psyche son and am breeding to a black Magnum Psyche son this spring, an absolutely breathtaking horse is Magnum Psyche, I also saw him as a yearling and he was as beautiful than an he is now! I agree also about judging show horses and race horses, it's actually harder in that show horses are being bred to be conformationally perfect, racehorses are bred for speed, anyone who has done rescue or has ex-racers can attest to how bad their conformation sometimes is, the judging there is completely different. I acually thought Seattle Slew was pretty unattractive, and Pleasnat Colony was downright hideous!

sunday silence wasn't much of a looker either....good thing he never looked in the mirror, might have hurt his self esteem.

i havne't seen a conformation shot of bernardini. just know that he seems to move very well, which is more important anyway isn't it?

i'd rather have an ugly winner than a pretty loser!

What does OLD Brooklynite do?
I thought he retired at the age of 55
unless, of course, you're buying into his line of BS
anyone who mocks a brokendown horse
has no business being in the horse business

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

What does OLD Brooklynite do?
I thought he retired at the age of 55
unless, of course, you're buying into his line of BS
anyone who mocks a brokendown horse
has no business being in the horse business

He may not be very respectful of other people's feeling about horses breaking down, but he does give me insight into the game especially when he gets Pedigree Ann all fired up. Then I get loss in a wealth of knowledge.

Furthermore, I've told all of the specific details of my credibility plus I have provided several websites at national competitions held three years ago in which I competed in and did very well in, and no I don't use books or manuals anymore. I don't have to. I have been a learner judge for the past three years. I won many savings bonds, scholarships, and gift certificates by winning at those two competitions also. In addition, the state of NC PAID for me to go to those competitions. So how about you? What have you done in the department? You are beating around the bush? What equine degree do you possess? I know of none that even have a class that specializes completely in conformation. You can't learn it in a semester. It takes years.

Better yet, I'll pick out a horse and you give me an in-depth conformation analysis of that horse. How form relates to function. I'll know right away if you are credible because you can't fake this kind of stuff. Certain aspects of it are in books, others take years of experience in working around and dealing with various kinds of horses with different conformation to learn. Actually, I already know your credibility because the fact that you said that it seemed as if I had copied it out of a book or a manual. Do you actually think the conformation analysis are printed up for all to see of Pleasant Colony and Magnum Psyche? Keep humoring me.

It was all over the place because I am tired and was quickly getting my words out.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

He may not be very respectful of other people's feeling about horses breaking down, but he does give me insight into the game especially when he gets Pedigree Ann all fired up. Then I get loss in a wealth of knowledge.

Furthermore, I've told all of the specific details of my credibility plus I have provided several websites at national competitions held three years ago in which I competed in and did very well in, and no I don't use books or manuals anymore. I don't have to. I have been a learner judge for the past three years. I won many savings bonds, scholarships, and gift certificates by winning at those two competitions also. In addition, the state of NC PAID for me to go to those competitions. So how about you? What have you done in the department? You are beating around the bush? What equine degree do you possess? I know of none that even have a class that specializes completely in conformation. You can't learn it in a semester. It takes years.

Better yet, I'll pick out a horse and you give me an in-depth conformation analysis of that horse. How form relates to function. I'll know right away if you are credible because you can't fake this kind of stuff. Certain aspects of it are in books, others take years of experience in working around and dealing with various kinds of horses with different conformation to learn. Actually, I already know your credibility because the fact that you said that it seemed as if I had copied it out of a book or a manual. Do you actually think the conformation analysis are printed up for all to see of Pleasant Colony and Magnum Psyche? Keep humoring me.

It was all over the place because I am tired and was quickly getting my words out.

The thread was supposed to be about Bernardini & Barbaro not you & I. I don't think anyone would have questioned your knowledge if you didn't try to come across like you knew everything. And if you are receiving horse racing insights, or insights of any kind from BB, you're hopeless indeed. From reading your posts, you have LOTS to learn before being able to go off on anyone about lack of horse racing knowledge. Keep learning, and be respectful. As far as ego goes, the sucessful people with big egos use it as self-motivation, and not to think of themselves better than others.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

The thread was supposed to be about Bernardini & Barbaro not you & I. I don't think anyone would have questioned your knowledge if you didn't try to come across like you knew everything. And if you are receiving horse racing insights, or insights of any kind from BB, you're hopeless indeed. From reading your posts, you have LOTS to learn before being able to go off on anyone about lack of horse racing knowledge. Keep learning, and be respectful. As far as ego goes, the sucessful people with big egos use it as self-motivation, and not to think of themselves better than others.

Well, I already know your credibility so the thread no longer matters. In all honesty, I'm not the most knowledgeable from this board on the topic. However, I specialized in the department of conformation analysis while I was a youth. Still, there is one other poster on this board that is better at it than me. Tell me what I have to learn, and then I will go learn it. I think I could easily turn this situation the other way around. I may be young, but I'm not stupid or ignorant. If you work around horses for awhile, you realize that you can never learn everything. Just because I say that I still have a lot to learn does not mean that I don't already have a vast overall knowledge of horses or the sport of horse racing. If I didn't, I wouldn't have won those educational hippology awards from Quarter Horse Congress, Southern Regionals, and Eastern Nationals. I wouldn't have been Horseman of the Year. We cover every kind of topic imaginable that deals with horses. Yes, we are asked in-depth questions about horse racing in those competitions as well. That was three year ago. I know a lot more now. It is ironic how someone such as yourself points out that I need to learn more.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Well, I already know your credibility so the thread no longer matters. In all honesty, I'm not the most knowledgeable from this board on the topic. However, I specialized in the department of conformation analysis while I was a youth. Still, there is one other poster on this board that is better at it than me. Tell me what I have to learn, and then I will go learn it. I think I could easily turn this situation the other way around. I may be young, but I'm not stupid or ignorant. If you work around horses for awhile, you realize that you can never learn everything. Just because I say that I still have a lot to learn does not mean that I don't already have a vast overall knowledge of horses or the sport of horse racing. If I didn't, I wouldn't have won those educational hippology awards from Quarter Horse Congress, Southern Regionals, and Eastern Nationals. I wouldn't have been Horseman of the Year. We cover every kind of topic imaginable that deals with horses. Yes, we are asked in-depth questions about horse racing in those competitions as well. That was three year ago. I know a lot more now. It is ironic how someone such as yourself points out that I need to learn more.

that's not irony...go to lit class
quarter horses? go back to 4-H club little girl
and stop wasting my time

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

sunday silence wasn't much of a looker either....good thing he never looked in the mirror, might have hurt his self esteem.

i havne't seen a conformation shot of bernardini. just know that he seems to move very well, which is more important anyway isn't it?

i'd rather have an ugly winner than a pretty loser!

Yes, Sunday Silence was very ugly, in fact pig-eyed, but I agree they look beautiful in the winners circle. I have a Tennessee Walker Stallion that I bought to breed to my Walking Horse mares, it took me a long time to find him because being also an Arabian breeder, I love a pretty horse. Walking horse people say you don't ride the head, but I wanted it all, my stallion is very nice looking for a Walker and he produces a small neat head instead of the old windshield type heads of the old time Walking Horses!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Yes, Sunday Silence was very ugly, in fact pig-eyed, but I agree they look beautiful in the winners circle. I have a Tennessee Walker Stallion that I bought to breed to my Walking Horse mares, it took me a long time to find him because being also an Arabian breeder, I love a pretty horse. Walking horse people say you don't ride the head, but I wanted it all, my stallion is very nice looking for a Walker and he produces a small neat head instead of the old windshield type heads of the old time Walking Horses!

friend of ours has walkers, another lady we know breeds peruvian pasos....
lol @ not riding the head, true! i remember a horse a few years ago in grand prix. can't remember his name, or even who rode him, the horses nickname was jughead. it was like they took a warmblood and transplanted a draft horse head onto him. i tell ya, people were fitting that guy for a paper bag to wear!! but man oh man, that horse could jump.

the fact that palomino breeders sought color was almost their undoing, no one worried about the looks...yeah, shiny as a new coin, but ugly!! thankfully that's been turned around for the most part....

the most beautiful horse imo is the arabian. far and away!

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

friend of ours has walkers, another lady we know breeds peruvian pasos....
lol @ not riding the head, true! i remember a horse a few years ago in grand prix. can't remember his name, or even who rode him, the horses nickname was jughead. it was like they took a warmblood and transplanted a draft horse head onto him. i tell ya, people were fitting that guy for a paper bag to wear!! but man oh man, that horse could jump.

the fact that palomino breeders sought color was almost their undoing, no one worried about the looks...yeah, shiny as a new coin, but ugly!! thankfully that's been turned around for the most part....

the most beautiful horse imo is the arabian. far and away!

LOL! I'm with ya there, I have a rather ugly-headed Walking horse filly, but let me tell you the view from her back is pure heaven, as smooth as silk! Breeding for color has hurt a lot of breeds, a few years ago the black Arabians were all the rage, unfortunately the majority were just plain UGLY, it's a lot better now. I bred my black Saddle horse to a black Arabian that gave me goosebumps, he was THAT gorgeous, I knew if I died on the spot I would have died having seen the most beautiful horse in the world! The resultant foal is now a 5 year old mare and in 30 years of breeding is the most beautiful horse I have ever bred, she is currently leased to a Dressage trainer and competing in Sporthorse classes, no money could buy her from me, next spring she goes to a black Magnum Psyche son for an incredibly exciting foal!