Islam and the weapon of deception

[Mike]

I should have paid more attention to Comparative Religions as a freshman in college. I had a good book but threw it away

All I can speak to is from my experience being raised an Irish-Catholic and attending Catholic schools with nuns. I think I absorbed the moral teachings of Jesus, despite my early realization that the nuns were very mean spirited, unhappy people. Didn't take long after that to see the scriptures were twisted by almost all to justify their own actions. And, yes, pedophilia is an integral part of the Roman Catholic Church's culture, I believe. And that includes the current Pope

[Honu]

I think a good experiment for Muslims would be to have a Sheik or someone of high "moral" authority say "My brothers and sisters with scarves for one week Allah says you are to be peacefull people in the world , for 7 days you must abstain from any warring with the infidels or anybody else , or Allah will strike you down".
I bet there would be almost no violence to report in the world except for the usual everyday murders , rapings, and theivery.
In a nutshell I think almost any Muslim in the Middle East who is given no hope by their leaders will resort to violence( this is true for almost all Muslim countries as it is the most effective way of brainwashing people) , death couldnt be any worse.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

I think a good experiment for Muslims would be to have a Sheik or someone of high "moral" authority say "My brothers and sisters with scarves for one week Allah says you are to be peacefull people in the world , for 7 days you must abstain from any warring with the infidels or anybody else , or Allah will strike you down".
I bet there would be almost no violence to report in the world except for the usual everyday murders , rapings, and theivery.
In a nutshell I think almost any Muslim in the Middle East who is given no hope by their leaders will resort to violence( this is true for almost all Muslim countries as it is the most effective way of brainwashing people) , death couldnt be any worse.

so....when a muslim says god is with us, he's wrong....but when a guy like the retired air force col i heard speak the other day, who said we are good christians and god is on our side...well, that's just peachy. don't worry about going to hell for murder boys, they're just infidels.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so....when a muslim says god is with us, he's wrong....but when a guy like the retired air force col i heard speak the other day, who said we are good christians and god is on our side...well, that's just peachy. don't worry about going to hell for murder boys, they're just infidels.

The diffirence being that Muslim people (not all of them but a large part of their sect) believe that you and I no matter what we believe are wrong unless we believe in Islam and they will kill you because of it , in a heartbeat.
They are doing it all over the world ,they are killing their own Muslim brothers and sisters and throwing acid on little girls faces on their way to school.
To me , from an observers point of view, Islam is a violent faith that promotes its self as peacefull God loving people , if they want the world to see that they are peacefull then its time they stand up to the radicals and tell them no more. But they wont because that would get them killed and so for the Muslims that wish no harm on anyone well they will just have to get used to being clumped in with the bad guys.
Do I see their faith as something I should fear? no , but the people practicing the faith , maybe so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

The diffirence being that Muslim people (not all of them but a large part of their sect) believe that you and I no matter what we believe are wrong unless we believe in Islam and they will kill you because of it , in a heartbeat.
They are doing it all over the world ,they are killing their own Muslim brothers and sisters and throwing acid on little girls faces on their way to school.
To me , from an observers point of view, Islam is a violent faith that promotes its self as peacefull God loving people , if they want the world to see that they are peacefull then its time they stand up to the radicals and tell them no more. But they wont because that would get them killed and so for the Muslims that wish no harm on anyone well they will just have to get used to being clumped in with the bad guys.
Do I see their faith as something I should fear? no , but the people practicing the faith , maybe so.

apparently you only read the news when no one stands up, and have missed all the calls from muslims asking for peace. it happens, but much like other good news, doesn't get front page above the fold headlines.
blanket statements have no place in dialogue. the squeaky wheel as they say gets the grease, so the violent muslim gets the story, while those who wish to live and let live get ignored, or painted as being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
i assure you, fostering hate does nothing to solve the problem-and imo the seed of this thread is planted in hate and fear, and ignorance.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Danzig

apparently you only read the news when no one stands up, and have missed all the calls from muslims asking for peace. it happens, but much like other good news, doesn't get front page above the fold headlines.
blanket statements have no place in dialogue. the squeaky wheel as they say gets the grease, so the violent muslim gets the story, while those who wish to live and let live get ignored, or painted as being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
i assure you, fostering hate does nothing to solve the problem-and imo the seed of this thread is planted in hate and fear, and ignorance.

I dont hate Muslims , I hate what the radicals do to people their own and others . They control the situation , if the peace loving one's had enough gumption or nerve they would stand up , write letters to the world , make a statement on tv to everyone that would listen that this is not what their faith is about . Yet they stand by and let their brothers and sisters with hate in their heart do the talking , why dont the leaders of these countries who are Muslim , if they dont condone the violence the followers of their faith stand up and say something , make it stop , stop supporting them with money and arms. I am not ignorant , I went to school with a Muslim girl , I have neighbors that are Ethiopian and Muslim all very nice people who dont seem to care that Im not Muslim . I dont hate anyone , but Im not so blind that to see a pattern of hate that is fostered from the time some of these people are born , Dateline did a great piece on children in Palistine that are tought in school to hate and are tought how to build bambs that they can strap to themselves so they can kill people and this is something that thru the Muslim faith is considered honorable. So I guess when the peace loving kind hearted Muslims stand up for what they believe in then people might start to believe that Islam is not a violent faith. Until then the perception is greater to think that Muslims are violent and treat their women and daughters like trash , that they dont care about their fellow man nor themselves.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

I dont hate Muslims , I hate what the radicals do to people their own and others . They control the situation , if the peace loving one's had enough gumption or nerve they would stand up , write letters to the world , make a statement on tv to everyone that would listen that this is not what their faith is about . Yet they stand by and let their brothers and sisters with hate in their heart do the talking , why dont the leaders of these countries who are Muslim , if they dont condone the violence the followers of their faith stand up and say something , make it stop , stop supporting them with money and arms. I am not ignorant , I went to school with a Muslim girl , I have neighbors that are Ethiopian and Muslim all very nice people who dont seem to care that Im not Muslim . I dont hate anyone , but Im not so blind that to see a pattern of hate that is fostered from the time some of these people are born , Dateline did a great piece on children in Palistine that are tought in school to hate and are tought how to build bambs that they can strap to themselves so they can kill people and this is something that thru the Muslim faith is considered honorable. So I guess when the peace loving kind hearted Muslims stand up for what they believe in then people might start to believe that Islam is not a violent faith. Until then the perception is greater to think that Muslims are violent and treat their women and daughters like trash , that they dont care about their fellow man nor themselves.

sadly, that happens everywhere. it's not limited to muslims, it's christians (who somehow manage to ignore the words of their leader) as well. i was just around my brother in law, who goes to church every sunday and went to help feed the homeless on christmas--sounds like a great guy, right....yet he uses the 'n' word, which i told him was disgusting. and he has three kids. no doubt he considers himself a christian, yet teaches his children hate by exhibiting racism.
we can all do better. but pointing fingers at others, while pretending we are so great (do we put others down so as to hopefully become elevated?) in my opinion is wrong. timmi is a hater. it's that simple. he seems however to feel that HIS hate is ok, as it's directed towards 'the bad guy'. but in doing so, he himself becomes that which he hates. i don't hate anyone. too often i have been dismissed (usually due to being a female) so i don't take dismissal from anyone, towards anyone, too lightly. if people want to be disgusted with those who actually commit a crime-go for it. but blanket statements about an entire group, based on the actions of some in that group, imo is wrong, it's distasteful to say the least, and should not be allowed to pass without comment. honu, surely you have dealt with things like this, perhaps not as strongly, in your line of work? i try to put myself in other peoples' shoes, and give benefit of the doubt. there is no way i can say that all muslims should be questioned due to the actions of some. that's just a stereotype-and i thought we fought those things?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

thanks, altho i doubt i get anywhere, except reminded i'm no longer decent...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thanks, altho i doubt i get anywhere, except reminded i'm no longer decent...

it's not that you're not decent, you've just become a deep thinker