Horse of the Year?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

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I believe you need to go back and look at the Lady's Secret on youtube. There was no way Zenyatta was going to have a loss in that race. Dirt or otherwise.

I believe that, and this is not meant as a jab at you, but you have never shown any objectivity towards the way you view Zenyatta. Zenyatta is a far superior filly to Hystericalady but the conditions of that race (small field, clear lead, slow pace) would have given Hystericalady a clear advantage over Zenyatta on that day had it been on dirt. The fact that it was on synthetic, which took away greatly from Hystericalady's ability, made that race much more deceptive than it actually was. The easy that it appeared Zenyatta won with was because of the surface. That was evidenced not in how Zenyatta beat Hystericalady but in how Hystericalady was barely able to beat out the third place horse, a horse that she's far superior to. I don't need to look at the race again to see what I saw the first 5-10 times that I've seen it.

[letswastemoney]

The only way to know for sure is if they both ran on a dirt surface together, which won't happen since HL is likely retired.

[Danzig]

maybe zenyatta can continue her ways, and steal the record from that monster, peppers pride. that would make mirajas day for sure!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe zenyatta can continue her ways, and steal the record from that monster, peppers pride. that would make mirajas day for sure!

[johnny pinwheel]

its going to be curlin with zenyatta right behind. any other thought is a joke. peppers pride, big brown and commentator beat absolutely no one and its stupid they are even mentioned with the top 2.

[RollerDoc]

No arguments on my choice here. The clear winner for HOY should be Big Brown. His results speak for itself. Based on the outcome of the BCC, I am more convinced Big Brown was the best horse in 2008.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

its going to be curlin with zenyatta right behind. any other thought is a joke. peppers pride, big brown and commentator beat absolutely no one and its stupid they are even mentioned with the top 2.

i think big brown will finish ahead of zenyatta-and he may well finish ahead of curlin. the contention that big brown beat 'no one' can't really be argued, as the same can be said about curlin. the one really good field that he faced, he lost-that being the bcc. now, he gets a pass for that from many because it's an AWT, but the finish can't be discounted. i think big browns fla derby and ky derby looked far better than any race curlin put together this year.
as for those who say zenyatta didn't face males, therefore she shouldn't be considered-you have a point, to a point. the distaff division certainly wasn't a weak one this year, and she demolished her 'peers' time and time again, on more than once surface. that's something that can't be argued for either of the other two who will garner votes.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think big browns fla derby and ky derby looked far better than any race curlin put together this year.

Or any other horse for that matter in 2008. That is one of many compelling reasons why Big Brown should and in my opinion will win HOY.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I believe that, and this is not meant as a jab at you, but you have never shown any objectivity towards the way you view Zenyatta. Zenyatta is a far superior filly to Hystericalady but the conditions of that race (small field, clear lead, slow pace) would have given Hystericalady a clear advantage over Zenyatta on that day had it been on dirt. The fact that it was on synthetic, which took away greatly from Hystericalady's ability, made that race much more deceptive than it actually was. The easy that it appeared Zenyatta won with was because of the surface. That was evidenced not in how Zenyatta beat Hystericalady but in how Hystericalady was barely able to beat out the third place horse, a horse that she's far superior to. I don't need to look at the race again to see what I saw the first 5-10 times that I've seen it.

Actually, I believe we could both be as you describe. Not a lot of objectivity, but for different reasons.
I realize Hystericalady favors dirt over any other surface. I know this. Her trainer knows this. Her owners know this. The gamblers know this. They still ran her on it. Analysis of races is great. However, sometimes one can get carried away by overthinking a particular race scenario to the point one's perspective is compromised by numbers, stats and what if's. This is a point where you and I differ greatly.

[10 pnt move up]

One last thing on the HOY

In 10 years you think they are going to be saying "remember the brilliant year Curlin had in 08'".....doubt it, what they are going to say is Curlin was a good horse but much better as a three year old in 07'

while in 10 years they will be saying remember the year Zenyatta had in 08' never challenged and undefeated.

just saying

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

One last thing on the HOY

In 10 years you think they are going to be saying "remember the brilliant year Curlin had in 08'".....doubt it, what they are going to say is Curlin was a good horse but much better as a three year old in 07'

while in 10 years they will be saying remember the year Zenyatta had in 08' never challenged and undefeated.

just saying

i can't help but wonder if either will be spoken of in ten years....depends on how zenyatta does i suppose, she's not thru yet. but i don't think curlin did anything worth re-hashing ten years from now.

[CSC]

Sorry if I missed this in the 90 posts thus far in this thread, but does anyone here actually think Zenyatta would have won the 08 BC Classic had she run in it?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sorry if I missed this in the 90 posts thus far in this thread, but does anyone here actually think Zenyatta would have won the 08 BC Classic had she run in it?

I think she would have had a great shot. I don't know if she would have won but she probably would have beaten Curlin.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think she would have had a great shot. I don't know if she would have won but she probably would have beaten Curlin.

The difficulty in assessing her are the fields she has been beating have been far less in quality in what she would have faced in the Classic. I'm pretty sure she would not have beaten Raven's Pass had she ran in the Classic and she would have to have to win HOY IMHO.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sorry if I missed this in the 90 posts thus far in this thread, but does anyone here actually think Zenyatta would have won the 08 BC Classic had she run in it?

ehh, she would have finished in front of Curlin though....heck even the great Tiago did that. Curlin was not the same horse at the end of the year.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

ehh, she would have finished in front of Curlin though....heck even the great Tiago did that. Curlin was not the same horse at the end of the year.

Let's say for argument's sake she finished ahead of Curlin in the Classic, are we awarding HOY on a 4th place finish in the Classic? Deciding HOY is usually reserved for winning, not for going in the backdoor.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

ehh, she would have finished in front of Curlin though....heck even the great Tiago did that. Curlin was not the same horse at the end of the year.

she would have fnished ahead of Champ elyses (sp) but not Curlin

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cardus

She might have travelled the same path as that of Raven's Pass and it would have been very interesting late in the stretch. She would have had a fair chance to win the race.

And with a win in that race, this thread might not have existed.

She may have, that is the dilemma here. Her connections decided to take the safe route and she never had a chance to try. I give Curlin's connections more credit because they did go out on a limb after all the indecision of starting in the Classic. I said this before the Classic, Curlin had nothing to lose running in it. Win he's a hero, lose you can blame it on the track. It did nothing to hurt his legacy in the end. By the way I am no huge Curlin fan, I think he's a very good horse, however the overused great tag that alot of the media and some fans used in describing him I thought was just a bunch of hyperbole.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

She may have, that is the dilemma here. Her connections decided to take the safe route and she never had a chance to try. I give Curlin's connections more credit because they did go out on a limb after all the indecision of starting in the Classic. I said this before the Classic, Curlin had nothing to lose running in it. Win he's a hero, lose you can blame it on the track. It did nothing to hurt his legacy in the end. By the way I am no huge Curlin fan, I think he's a very good horse, however the overused great tag that alot of the media and some fans used in describing him I thought was just a bunch of hyperbole.

what makes a horse great?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

One last thing on the HOY

In 10 years you think they are going to be saying "remember the brilliant year Curlin had in 08'".....doubt it, what they are going to say is Curlin was a good horse but much better as a three year old in 07'

while in 10 years they will be saying remember the year Zenyatta had in 08' never challenged and undefeated.

just saying

They also said the same thing or something simlilar about Azeri before she tried the colts, it's really easy to look good when you are racing against a subpar bunch of horses.