Lawyer Ron returns in St. Louis Derby

[Danzig]

forgive my ignorance....but why would a stud farm care if he had a chip? esp when you consider some of the horses at stud who have rotten conformation...
a chip is enough to pass on a horse?
then you consider unbridleds song...he didn't vet out, and the owner had the last laugh, hell he's still laughing now.

i guess i don't see the huge problem, considering the price the japanese paid out for war emblem and his chips.

[sumitas]

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

Originally Posted by sumitas

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

Langfurh is no world beater and by no means an established sire of sires....sorry, but bloodstock agents won't like his second-hand blood until he proves something
.....

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Langfurh is no world beater and by no means an established sire of sires....sorry, but bloodstock agents won't like his second-hand blood until he proves something
.....

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

And LR does it again. Winning the St Louis derby in his first race back from the chip. Quite impressive when a horse who has a chip taken out can return first crack out of the box and win a 250 grand race, no matter where a 250 grand race is run, they don't give those away.

[Pedigree Ann]

An Addendum - Lawyer Ron is the sort of stallion who going to be desparately needed in Kentucky very soon. He has one cross of Northern Dancer but NO Raise a Native (so no Mr. P) or Storm Cat or Seattle Slew or any of the really fashionable bloodlines. Outcrossing is going to be vital and Ron can provide that.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

An Addendum - Lawyer Ron is the sort of stallion who going to be desparately needed in Kentucky very soon. He has one cross of Northern Dancer but NO Raise a Native (so no Mr. P) or Storm Cat or Seattle Slew or any of the really fashionable bloodlines. Outcrossing is going to be vital and Ron can provide that.

Ann I think thats obvious. WIth so many Storm cats out there as well as Slews, etc. At some point outcross stallions are going to be vital.
You would be surprised how sought after Offlee Wild was when lansdon sold is breeding rights, one of the main reasons cited was that he was an outcross and that they were going to be in demand in the very near future.

[GenuineRisk]

I'm so happy he's back-- I loved him this spring. Does anyone know if the video of the race is available anywhere? I didn't see it listed on NTRA.com.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

I'm telling you, Pedigree Anne, he is not the most attractive stallion prosepct due to his size and Langfurh does hurt him alot...the Danzig sire line is not a very productive line anyway...sure, there is Danehill, etc. - but Danzig has actually been considered as a disappointing sire of sires...he is FAR better on the broodmare side...

I'm just stating what the industry experts opinions are....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I'm telling you, Pedigree Anne, he is not the most attractive stallion prosepct due to his size and Langfurh does hurt him alot...the Danzig sire line is not a very productive line anyway...sure, there is Danehill, etc. - but Danzig has actually been considered as a disappointing sire of sires...he is FAR better on the broodmare side...

I'm just stating what the industry experts opinions are....

lol
danzig a disappointment?! good lord man what are you drinking?? danehill ALONE would grant any sire a title as sire of sires. i can't believe you would dismiss that horse so readily. danehill over 200 stakes winners, danzig with 192 last time i looked. yeah, unproductive as hell. danehill led the sire list 9 times.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lol
danzig a disappointment?! good lord man what are you drinking?? danehill ALONE would grant any sire a title as sire of sires. i can't believe you would dismiss that horse so readily. danehill over 200 stakes winners, danzig with 192 last time i looked. yeah, unproductive as hell. danehill led the sire list 9 times.

Obviously i can tell your bias by your screen name....say what you will, but I'm telling you that his paternal line is very cold in the eyes of bloodstock agents, much like Kris S. is, etc.....it is an undeniable fact.....of course there are exceptions in any thing, especially with all of the sires he has floating around out there. But I'm just saying that with all of the stallions he has and all of the nice mares he's bred over the past 20+ years before passing that he is known for being a racehorse sire and a pretty solid influence on the dam side....with all of the great runners hes had i would consider their success (or lack there of) as a relative failure - again, much like Kris S. sireline, etc....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

langfuhr is #11 right now on the top sires list. he's doing just fine.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

forgive my ignorance....but why would a stud farm care if he had a chip? esp when you consider some of the horses at stud who have rotten conformation...
a chip is enough to pass on a horse?
then you consider unbridleds song...he didn't vet out, and the owner had the last laugh, hell he's still laughing now.

i guess i don't see the huge problem, considering the price the japanese paid out for war emblem and his chips.

becasue they wouldn't want to invest in a stud that wasn't 100% to risk breaking him down and not getting him to the original reason they bought him - for stud duty...if the horse retires and goes to stud and then doesn't vet out then it is no big deal, But if he is stillr raicng it is a VERY big deal from a risk standpoint....the insurance wouldnb;t go for it first of all..

All out to beat Smokeyjonessutton?

Well ... at least he's healthy again ... and a win is a win. Does Fairmount have any more stakes races carded for him?

Onward and upward.