Prop 8 Sucks

[fpsoxfan]

367funny_010.gif

[GenuineRisk]

Interesting article from fivethirtyeight.com dispelling the idea that Prop 8 is the fault of minority voters:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...p-8-myths.html

Fivethirtyeight was frighteningly accurate in its predictions about the election. There was an article in New York Magazine about the founder- he started as a baseball stat compiler.

[Antitrust32]

Well... Connecticut decided to do the morally right thing today!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Well... Connecticut decided to do the morally right thing today!

Hurray for one "C" state doing what's right! East Coast represents!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

I will say the result of elections isn't the fault of any group of voters,
whether we like the outcome or not.
People vote------> majority wins.

Is anyone just as outraged the people of Massachusetts weren't given the opportunity
to vote for, or against gay marriage ?

so...if the majority voted to get rid of the rights to a free press, would that be ok? to stifle free speech, expression?

once again, majority does NOT rule. the constitution is supposed to rule,and all laws that are passed must stand that test. so, does a law that treats some citizens as less equal than others belong in the land of the free? what happened to all being created equal? life, liberty, etc, etc.

[Antitrust32]

Zig if you were not married and were gay I'd be taking you to Connecticut right now!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Zig if you were not married and were gay I'd be taking you to Connecticut right now!!

lol

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so...if the majority voted to get rid of the rights to a free press, would that be ok? to stifle free speech, expression?

once again, majority does NOT rule. the constitution is supposed to rule,and all laws that are passed must stand that test. so, does a law that treats some citizens as less equal than others belong in the land of the free? what happened to all being created equal? life, liberty, etc, etc.

Darn straight, Danzig. It took a court decision to make it legal for interracial couples to marry- if that one had been left to the voters, I suspect some states would STILL have laws on the books against it.

Or as the US State info site puts it on the "What is Democracy" page under "Majority Rule and Minority Rights":

"The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens."

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pub...em/whatdm2.htm

And yeah, certainly it's unfair to blame any group of voters. That said, a lot of incendiary things have been tossed at racial minority voters in the blogosphere since last Tuesday and I thought it was a worthwhile piece on 538- that a lot of what is being said is statistically wrong. Most interesting was the difference in percentages the last time it was on the CA ballot compared with this time. Prop 8 will stand for 4 years at the most. Maybe only 2.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Darn straight, Danzig. It took a court decision to make it legal for interracial couples to marry- if that one had been left to the voters, I suspect some states would STILL have laws on the books against it.

Or as the US State info site puts it on the "What is Democracy" page under "Majority Rule and Minority Rights":

"The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens."

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pub...em/whatdm2.htm

And yeah, certainly it's unfair to blame any group of voters. That said, a lot of incendiary things have been tossed at racial minority voters in the blogosphere since last Tuesday and I thought it was a worthwhile piece on 538- that a lot of what is being said is statistically wrong. Most interesting was the difference in percentages the last time it was on the CA ballot compared with this time. Prop 8 will stand for 4 years at the most. Maybe only 2.

You are right that its unfair to blame any group of voters.

But I just dont understand how a group of people who have fought for equality and achieved it - how they can vote 70-30 in favor of a prop that takes away equality from a different group of people.

Was talking about this with a very religious black woman I work with - and she doesnt know I'm gay.. & she even said regardless of her personal or religious beliefs - that the government shouldnt be able to take rights away from people - and that people shouldnt be able to vote to take rights away from others. I was surprised to hear this from her - as shes very traditional and morally strict... but I was happy to hear it!!

[letswastemoney]

If a proposition to reinstate slavery existed, there would be plenty of votes for it.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If a proposition to reinstate slavery existed, there would be plenty of votes for it.

exactly... Prop 8 & the ones in FL, AZ, an AR were so wrong in so many ways... and they all passed.

What does that say about our country?

I know our neighbors to the north & allies in Europe/Australia/New Zealand etc. laugh at the US about this issue... says it sets us back from the countries that have passed civil unions/gay marriage/equality for all.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

No there wouldn't. Slavery doesn't serve anyone well.

and discriminating against gays serves everyone well?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

apples and oranges. A better arguement can be made the rights for free press
and free speech serve the good of all versus, the legalization of same-sex marriage accomplishing the same overall good.

And let's legalize polygamy while we're at it.

Did you vote for Congressman Murtha?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

apples and oranges. A better arguement can be made the rights for free press
and free speech serve the good of all versus, the legalization of same-sex marriage accomplishing the same overall good.

And let's legalize polygamy while we're at it.

if polygamy was legal for men, but not for women, i'd have the same argument. rights are given to married couples that aren't available for same sex couples. that's where the line was crossed.
and it's not apples and oranges, either everyone really is equal, or they aren't.