Now I Have Zero Respect Left for Shirreffs

[Danzig]

wasn't gulch an eclipse award winner that year? to compare him to mast track is a bit much, isn't it?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

wasn't gulch an eclipse award winner that year? to compare him to mast track is a bit much, isn't it?

Come on people. I'm not comparing them in ability. I'm comparing them in relation to the best runners of their year. That's not the same. In 1988, Gulch was the champion sprinter. He won the Met Mile too. But Personal Ensign beat him at 9f. That was beyond the distance that he was trained to specialize at that year. So don't tell me about how he won the Wood the year before. In 1988, Gulch's wins were the Sprint, Met Mile, Carter, and the Portero Grande. King's Swan was the epitome of a tough veteran the had to always be respected. In terms of ability, he and Gulch are like night and day compared to Two Step Salsa and Mast Track. Hell, in today's game, Gulch and King's Swan might be able to win Eclipse awards as champion older male and champion sprinter. That's not the comparison I was making though. As a router in 1988, Gulch was behind the likes of Alysheba, Bet Twice, Lost Code, Cryptoclearance, Cutlass Reality, Forty Niner, Waquoit, Ferdinand.....he was not a top level router.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Come on people. I'm not comparing them in ability. I'm comparing them in relation to the best runners of their year. That's not the same. In 1988, Gulch was the champion sprinter. He won the Met Mile too. But Personal Ensign beat him at 9f. That was beyond the distance that he was trained to specialize at that year. So don't tell me about how he won the Wood the year before. In 1988, Gulch's wins were the Sprint, Met Mile, Carter, and the Portero Grande. King's Swan was the epitome of a tough veteran the had to always be respected. In terms of ability, he and Gulch are like night and day compared to Two Step Salsa and Mast Track. Hell, in today's game, Gulch and King's Swan might be able to win Eclipse awards as champion older male and champion sprinter. That's not the comparison I was making though. As a router in 1988, Gulch was behind the likes of Alysheba, Bet Twice, Lost Code, Cryptoclearance, Cutlass Reality, Forty Niner, Waquoit, Ferdinand.....he was not a top level router.

You're wrong about Gulch. He was specifically trained to go long. He ran in every TC race ( he was third in the Belmont ). He didn't just win the Wood....he lost a photo to the mighty Java Gold in the Whitney. He also ran second in the Woodward to Polish Navy.

Perhaps he was ultimately better sprinting, or maybe the competition was just weaker ( and Afleet should have beaten him in both the Met and BC Sprint in 1988 ) but he was still one of the best horses in the country at 1 1/8, when there were extremely good horses running, as both a 3YO and 4YO. What he was was versatile.

It's not so clear Waquoit and Crypto were consistently better than Gulch at 1 1/8...and spare me Cutlass Reality. I knew Cutlass Reality before his miracle transformation in California....and he was no Gulch.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're wrong about Gulch. He was specifically trained to go long. He ran in every TC race ( he was third in the Belmont ). He didn't just win the Wood....he lost a photo to the mighty Java Gold in the Whitney. He also ran second in the Woodward to Polish Navy.

Perhaps he was ultimately better sprinting, or maybe the competition was just weaker ( and Afleet should have beaten him in both the Met and BC Sprint in 1988 ) but he was still one of the best horses in the country at 1 1/8, when there were extremely good horses running, as both a 3YO and 4YO. What he was was versatile.

It's not so clear Waquoit and Crypto were consistently better than Gulch at 1 1/8...and spare me Cutlass Reality. I knew Cutlass Reality before his miracle transformation in California....and he was no Gulch.

Those TC races were in 1987. That Wood was 1987. That Whitney was 1987. That Woodward was 1987. Maybe it's wrong to say he wasn't trained as a router in 1988 but he lost every single time they tried him in routes. Lost Code and Cryptoclearance beat him at Oaklawn. Alysheba and Bet Twice beat him in the Iselin. Cutlass Reality beat him in the Californian. Personal Ensign beat him in the Whitney. Now, the reality is that all of those were really good horse and you are probably right that he had more success sprinting because the competition was weaker. But while he was a very good horse and very versatile one and one of my favorite horses ever, I do not think he was one of the upper echelon of routers in the country that year. I don't think he was on the level of Alysheba, Forty Niner, Seeking the Gold, Waquiot, Cutlass Reality, Ferdinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code, and Cryptoclearance. Maybe it's a matter of how deep you are willing to go when classifying what's upper echelon to you. For me the top level was Alysheba. The next level was Bet Twice, Lost Code, Forty Niner, and Seeking the Gold. The next had Ferdinand, Waquoit, Cutlass Reality, and Ferdinand. Gulch would come in after that. Again, I think on ability, Gulch had the kind of talent that could have won him HOY this year. I was not comparing them in ability.