Breeders' Cup; some thoughts

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do you? I guess the rest of us must have missed it...

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

which one is the dirt mile?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

[Hwjb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

Being English I'm unable to appreciate the merits of a French meeting, is that what you mean? That's sound logic.
Historical cache vs multi-million purses? You'd have Dubai World Cup day as the best meeting of the year I assume?
How did the track go down at Monmouth last year? At least with this turf, you don't have to go replacing and relaying it all the time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Being English I'm unable to appreciate the merits of a French meeting, is that what you mean? That's sound logic.
Historical cache vs multi-million purses? You'd have Dubai World Cup day as the best meeting of the year I assume?
How did the track go down at Monmouth last year? At least with this turf, you don't have to go replacing and relaying it all the time.

Listen you said that you had an event similar to the breeders Cup. You dont. The races you mentioned are nice races but hardly the equal of the Breeders Cup especially in terms of monetary value. You yourself noted that you did not know much about the participants yet managed to rundown each race and the event as a whole. The Dubai World Cup is a pretty good meeting no?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Listen you said that you had an event similar to the breeders Cup. You dont. The races you mentioned are nice races but hardly the equal of the Breeders Cup especially in terms of monetary value. You yourself noted that you did not know much about the participants yet managed to rundown each race and the event as a whole. The Dubai World Cup is a pretty good meeting no?

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

If you stay on topic, this thread was about Europe having an event similar to the BC...nothing else. And they don't...neither in variety of surfaces and distances and ages nor cumilative purse values over a two day period. Obviously all those Europe races mentioned are nice, prestigeous, valuable, etc, etc races..but they are just that...individual races. And we'll see how much of an "afterthought" it is next year when they realize their turf only horses may be better off in the Classic than in one of their "nice" races.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Nice races?!? Are you really that ignorant? Newsflash - most owners across the Atlantic don't care about the Breeders' Cup; they care about winning the Arc, or the Abbaye, or the Moulin, which have pretty good purses, too. If they come to the BC, it is usually as an afterthought, or as a means of redemption for a poor run (didn't win the prestige race, go for the cash). Sometimes a sportsman sends his/her top-class horse to run, but previous experience has shown that which horses adapt to US conditions is a bit of a lottery and some don't care to take the chance since it cannot improve the horses' standing.

I may be ignorant but I posed a question to the Englishman and his response was this weekend of races was the European version of the breeders Cup which it most certainly is not. Perhaps if you got off your high horse and actully followed along with the thread you would see what we were talking about. Newsflash the Arc weekend is not that similar to the Breeders Cup despite the prestige or purses of a couple of the races.

[blackthroatedwind]

Connections must have been particularly excited by how both runnings of this year's Prix de L'Abbaye played out. If the BC had a disaster like that there would be 5000 internet threads about it......and 50,000 if it happened at a NYRA track. Fine job they did with that race.

Personally I thought the grass sprint was the best addition.

Chunk the remaining.
Also get rid of the juvy's.

ahhh maybe keep the "dirt" mile and make the classic 1.5 miles.
If the three year olds have the Belmont stakes after having to
endure the first two legs...

And keep the Euros coming over. It makes for a better event.
Its good for them to take our money and leave.
I likes the competition.

My contribution.
More Euros that come over and beat our butts the more
notice the event gets. And personally I have always liked
the one day event.

[magic_idol]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Personally I thought the grass sprint was the best addition.

Chunk the remaining.
Also get rid of the juvy's.

ahhh maybe keep the "dirt" mile and make the classic 1.5 miles.
If the three year olds have the Belmont stakes after having to
endure the first two legs...

And keep the Euros coming over. It makes for a better event.
Its good for them to take our money and leave.
I likes the competition.

My contribution.
More Euros that come over and beat our butts the more
notice the event gets. And personally I have always liked
the one day event.

Change when the event is held make it the best horses from around the world unfortunately it is held right in the middle of our major event so i doubt you will ever see the best of downunder horses there

Originally Posted by magic_idol

Change when the event is held make it the best horses from around the world unfortunately it is held right in the middle of our major event so i doubt you will ever see the best of downunder horses there

Sort of bad timing here also as football is in full swing, baseball WS going...
Let us get together and work on a better time and submit our recomendation so that it can be...


crinkle


*trash*

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nice, a guy from England using French racing as his defense. How many of these races have a million dollar purse let alone $25 million over the two days?
Not to mention that swamp that they run over.

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

Please dont send this to Churchill Downs....they may actually believe it and stop paying purses

[Mike]

My thoughts:

Synthetic payoffs were low, except for the Classic and the Marathon, the longest races, won by Euro shippers.Conversely,all three sprint races were won by U.S. based horses, with a horse for course, Desert Code, pulling the biggest upset in the turf sprint.

Frontrunners fared very poorly on the Pro Ride.

The grass/synthetic positive correlation was true to form this weekend at Santa Anita

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Mike

My thoughts:

Synthetic payoffs were low, except for the Classic and the Marathon, the longest races, won by Euro shippers.Conversely,all three sprint races were won by U.S. based horses, with a horse for course, Desert Code, pulling the biggest upset in the turf sprint.

Frontrunners fared very poorly on the Pro Ride.

The grass/synthetic positive correlation was true to form this weekend at Santa Anita

The sad thing is that we have to wait 2 years for true dirt championships. Bringing this back to the pro-crap is a disgrace.

[CSC]

Frankie Dettori is a big day rider, Johnny Murtagh was not.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

Trophies were damn heavy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the purse is completely irrelevant get a grip?
WHO THE F CARES ABOUT THE FN PURSE THE MOSS'S THE PHIPPS THE TABORS OH THE WEBBER? CHUCK ONLY THE TRAINERS CARE ABOUT THE PURSE

you do realize there are a lot more owners without those kind of bucks than with, right? and then the jock, the groom, etc. it's not as tho those kinds of purses are handed out all day, every day, at every track.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Arc, Grand Criterium, Marcel Boussac, Abbaye, Opera, Prix de la Foret, Cadran, Dollar, Daniel Wildenstein, all in two day's racing. Feel free to pick it apart.

OK, I will.

I've been to Arc weekend, and think it's a great event, but comparing it to the BC makes no sense whatsoever. The BC provides races, and opportunities, from the very beginning, for Europeans to do what they are trained for....i.e turf racing. Now they have gone a step further, and provided another surface that mitigates the excellence of our horses while enhancing the chances of the Euros ( which, by the way, are often US bred ).

Until Longchamp, or Royal Ascot, put in a dirt course and put up a series of races that provide opportunities for our horses to shine you cannot fairly compare any days, or meets, over there to the BC.