Mike Scioscia is an utter moron

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

All I was pointing out, was how close this thread came to non-existence. If Aybar even touches that ball with his bat, it changes the whole thing. Either a series "momentum" swingin' run, or a foul ball that changes the count along with the defensive positioning. It could have went either way and they caught the short end.

There was no momentum to swing. The Angels had it all. The crowd was dead as a doornail and the Red Sox players were noticeably tight. After that play, the crowd got back into the game and the Red Sox were playing with house money.

[dalakhani]

Pitchers pitch differently with a lead and hitters hit differently when they are playing from behind. Crowds, for better or worse, can affect performance.

These ideas are not easily quantifiable as they effect each player differently for better or worse from situation to situation.

The suicide squeeze was not a smart move in my opinion in that situation. Your team has battled back into contention and is a routine fly ball away from going up. Any move outside of the norm in that situation not only risks catastrophic error but also sends a message of desperation.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Pitchers pitch differently with a lead and hitters hit differently when they are playing from behind. Crowds, for better or worse, can affect performance.

These ideas are not easily quantifiable as they effect each player differently for better or worse from situation to situation.

The suicide squeeze was not a smart move in my opinion in that situation. Your team has battled back into contention and is a routine fly ball away from going up. Any move outside of the norm in that situation not only risks catastrophic error but also sends a message of desperation.

Gracias.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Pitchers pitch differently with a lead and hitters hit differently when they are playing from behind. Crowds, for better or worse, can affect performance.
These ideas are not easily quantifiable as they effect each player differently for better or worse from situation to situation.

The suicide squeeze was not a smart move in my opinion in that situation. Your team has battled back into contention and is a routine fly ball away from going up. Any move outside of the norm in that situation not only risks catastrophic error but also sends a message of desperation.

Yeah sure they do...thats why Aybar whiffed on the ball, because they were tied. If they were leading he would have been so relaxed and Shields wouldnt have been in the game. Once again the call should not be the main issue, the lack of execution should be. That is tangible, your intangibles arguement is impossible to quantify. Saying that Shields pitched differently because they didnt score is silly.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah sure they do...thats why Aybar whiffed on the ball, because they were tied. If they were leading he would have been so relaxed and Shields wouldnt have been in the game. Once again the call should not be the main issue, the lack of execution should be. That is tangible, your intangibles arguement is impossible to quantify. Saying that Shields pitched differently because they didnt score is silly.

I took you for a guy that actually PLAYED sports. If not, I at least would expect you to appreciate the fact that there is a psychology. If you don't think that execution is effected by different situations in the game, I dont know what to tell you. What you are saying defies years of research on the subject.

I do agree, as i stated in my earlier post, that it is impossible to quantify the amount of effect.

A link to a small study on the subject:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...12a243696bb035


even better:

http://www.dartsperfection.com/free%...ext%5B1%5D.pdf

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I took you for a guy that actually PLAYED sports. If not, I at least would expect you to appreciate the fact that there is a psychology. If you don't think that execution is effected by different situations in the game, I dont know what to tell you. What you are saying defies years of research on the subject.

I do agree, as i stated in my earlier post, that it is impossible to quantify the amount of effect.

A link to a small study on the subject:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...12a243696bb035


even better:

http://www.dartsperfection.com/free%...ext%5B1%5D.pdf

Ok baseball genuises, why exactly would Shields have been pitching if they had the lead? All this crap that you spew is theory. The facts remain the failure of execution of a fundemental task were the reason the play didnt work. Why is it so hard for you two baseball gurus to understand? All the possibilities that you assume are just that, assumptions. The FACT is that the play wasnt properly executed which is what led to them not scoring, NOT LOSING!!! In baseball you cant even assume the double play, let alone the next inning. Exactly how many non playoff games do you watch? Did you watch the previous game? Did the Angels pitchers throw differently when the blew a three run lead by misplaying a flyball?

[Scav]

I am really missing the point of all this babble, but the mission of each player, within the situation, is pretty transparent

Aybar: Make contact and when suicide was called, to put bat on ball in any way possible

Runner: To leave at the precise time the pitcher looks away while taking as big as lead as possible (especially if 3rd baseman playing normal depth)

Guy pitching to Aybar: To throw a pitch that Aybar would have problems with, and to throw pitches that Aybar would have problems bunting in case of the suicide call (high pitches, no breaking balls as they are the easiest to bunt)

Shields: To get Jed Lowrie out any way possible

Now I don't know enough about Lowrie, but I know he didn't hit a cupcake pitch

[Mortimer]

I displayed excellent range .

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am really missing the point of all this babble, but the mission of each player, within the situation, is pretty transparent

Aybar: Make contact and when suicide was called, to put bat on ball in any way possible

Runner: To leave at the precise time the pitcher looks away while taking as big as lead as possible (especially if 3rd baseman playing normal depth)

Guy pitching to Aybar: To throw a pitch that Aybar would have problems with, and to throw pitches that Aybar would have problems bunting in case of the suicide call (high pitches, no breaking balls as they are the easiest to bunt)

Shields: To get Jed Lowrie out any way possible

Now I don't know enough about Lowrie, but I know he didn't hit a cupcake pitch

The point is that the original poster makes a lot of assumptions after the fact and refuses to acknowledge that his assumptions are just that. It is really the equilivant of a baseball redboard.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok baseball genuises, why exactly would Shields have been pitching if they had the lead? All this crap that you spew is theory. The facts remain the failure of execution of a fundemental task were the reason the play didnt work. Why is it so hard for you two baseball gurus to understand? All the possibilities that you assume are just that, assumptions. The FACT is that the play wasnt properly executed which is what led to them not scoring, NOT LOSING!!! In baseball you cant even assume the double play, let alone the next inning. Exactly how many non playoff games do you watch? Did you watch the previous game? Did the Angels pitchers throw differently when the blew a three run lead by misplaying a flyball?

LOL. Its interesting that you complain about discussions devolving but yet you throw childish tantrums anytime you are challenged as if you are Whitey Ford reincarnated and your ideas of baseball should be followed to the letter lest we be damned. Indeed, like every other subject, you are the genius.

What you fail to understand is that the reward in that situation was outweighed by the probability of failure and the penalty for that failure. There was a better option: let your player try to get a routine fly ball. If you can't understand that there is such a thing as PSYCHE and that a play like that can demoralize a team, I dont know what to say. If you do understand and are choosing to just ignore it to "win" a silly argument, this is pointless.

If you dont acknowledge that pitchers pitch differently when pitching with a lead, again, i dont know what to say. The same thing with hitters.

Ask A Rod.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL. Its interesting that you complain about discussions devolving but yet you throw childish tantrums anytime you are challenged as if you are Whitey Ford reincarnated and your ideas of baseball should be followed to the letter lest we be damned. Indeed, like every other subject, you are the genius.

What you fail to understand is that the reward in that situation was outweighed by the probability of failure and the penalty for that failure. There was a better option: let your player try to get a routine fly ball. If you can't understand that there is such a thing as PSYCHE and that a play like that can demoralize a team, I dont know what to say. If you do understand and are choosing to just ignore it to "win" a silly argument, this is pointless.

If you dont acknowledge that pitchers pitch differently when pitching with a lead, again, i dont know what to say. The same thing with hitters.

Ask A Rod.

I made a valid logical point and Joey was the one who had the problem with my point. I disagree with his point and said why. He just called me names and said I was simply disagreeing with him. I have made my point clear and him and you make these neblous arguments, yet I am childish? You are a pompous ass who loves to call people stupid and idiots yet when you post a study on 12 golfers I'm supposed to bow down to your knowledge and understand of psychology? please. Understand the game and make your points. If you bring something valid to the table, fine but assuming that that one play caused all these other things to happen is a reach. Ignoring the fact that the batter was to blame for missing the pitch shows total lack of understanding. And anyone who thinks the pressures of any sport that any of us ever played is the same as a major league player is a dreaming also.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Saying that Shields pitched differently because they didnt score is silly.

Seriously, have you ever played baseball?

[Mortimer]

I have .....don't ya know.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Seriously, have you ever played baseball?

Seriously what difference does it make? Have you ever watched the game? I brought a sensible, defensable and logical point. You bring theories. And yet I am the issue here? I do know that when you have the squeeze on that you throw the damn bat at the ball to ensure you make contact. You dont whiff unless they pitchout in which case you are dead anyway. You came with momentum, I countered with fundemental baseball and your sponsor Dalaclueless came with studies on golf. Anytime you want to have a discussion on baseball and tactics fine. I mean even the announcers commented on the possibility of the squeeze before he did it. It is how they play. Of course you are a avid follower of the Angels I'm sure.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Seriously what difference does it make? Have you ever watched the game? I brought a sensible, defensable and logical point. You bring theories. And yet I am the issue here? I do know that when you have the squeeze on that you throw the damn bat at the ball to ensure you make contact. You dont whiff unless they pitchout in which case you are dead anyway. You came with momentum, I countered with fundemental baseball and your sponsor Dalaclueless came with studies on golf. Anytime you want to have a discussion on baseball and tactics fine. I mean even the announcers commented on the possibility of the squeeze before he did it. It is how they play. Of course you are a avid follower of the Angels I'm sure.

Well, if you never played sports you couldnt possibly understand first hand the impact of pressure on performance.

I find it interesting that you were crying about namecalling. LOL. Hypocrisy rules.

[Mortimer]

At the end of the game as we formed the "good game" line...I would spit on each and every one of them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well, if you never played sports you couldnt possibly understand first hand the impact of pressure on performance.

I find it interesting that you were crying about namecalling. LOL. Hypocrisy rules.

Your arrogance has brought me down to your level. Sorry about the names. Yeah my sports experience really is in the same league as the major league playoffs. Thanks for the compliment, you must have thought I was better than I really was for me to be able to be compared to Scot Shields. My 2 seamer was close to his but his curve bites a lot more than mine. Though I did throw a scuff ball and wasnt afraid to back a man off the plate. The fact my fastball was about the same speed as Wakefields knuckleball was probably the reason I never meade it though once we were tied against St. mary's and some idiot missed the squeeze call and the runner got tagged out at home and the next inning I just couldnt find the plate so maybe you guys are right.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Seriously what difference does it make? Have you ever watched the game? I brought a sensible, defensable and logical point. You bring theories. And yet I am the issue here? I do know that when you have the squeeze on that you throw the damn bat at the ball to ensure you make contact. You dont whiff unless they pitchout in which case you are dead anyway. You came with momentum, I countered with fundemental baseball and your sponsor Dalaclueless came with studies on golf. Anytime you want to have a discussion on baseball and tactics fine. I mean even the announcers commented on the possibility of the squeeze before he did it. It is how they play. Of course you are a avid follower of the Angels I'm sure.

Your apparent contention that each pitch and each at-bat exists in its own vacuum, unaffected by the previous pitch or at-bat, is bizarre and surprising. There's no arguing with someone who thinks that way about sports.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Your apparent contention that each pitch and each at-bat exists in its own vacuum, unaffected by the previous pitch or at-bat, is bizarre and surprising. There's no arguing with someone who thinks that way about sports.

Absolutely not however there is no way for anyone outside of Miss Cleo to know what the effects are until after the fact.

[Mortimer]

I always carried a a knife.



They knew not try anything stupid with me.