Zito: Commentator passing BC; Targets '09 season

As hard as it is for me to say this, this is 100% the correct decision

[the_fat_man]

I don't get it.

If the BC was the ultimate aim, why 'risk' running in SUF if the horse needs extra time between races?

And, given the EASY time of it he had at SUF, why the extra time to recover?
Here's a case where a horse (physically) bounced.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I don't get it.

If the BC was the ultimate aim, why 'risk' running in SUF if the horse needs extra time between races?

And, given the EASY time of it he had at SUF, why the extra time to recover?
Here's a case where a horse (physically) bounced.

Apparently the horses is as sound as I am sober.

[miraja2]

Clearly they need to add a 9f race.
They probably need a 10f one for the fillies too.

[10 pnt move up]

Commentator = Lava Man?

Just see a lot of similar qualities, while good horses, despite their records I never felt either falls into the great category.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Commentator = Lava Man?

Just see a lot of similar qualities, while good horses, despite their records I never felt either falls into the great category.

Lava Man couldn't compete outside of Southern California. Commentator has run huge races at Saratoga, Belmont, Keeneland, Churchill and Suffolk.

Now, Lava Man ran some very nice races, none as fast as quite a few Commentator ran, and Commentator has run fast races at more than a few distances, thus I just don't see the comparison.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Lava Man couldn't compete outside of Southern California. Commentator has run huge races at Saratoga, Belmont, Keeneland, Churchill and Suffolk.

Now, Lava Man ran some very nice races, none as fast as quite a few Commentator ran, and Commentator has run fast races at more than a few distances, thus I just don't see the comparison.

Dont forget Gulfstream........LM did run a 120 beyer ONCE, in his first HWGC win.
Lava Man is a perfect example of why many beleive that Cali racing is just not up to par with the east coast.
The funny thing with LM is that his trainer seems to have a real niche for shipping east to pick up graded stakes.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Commentator = Lava Man?

Just see a lot of similar qualities, while good horses, despite their records I never felt either falls into the great category.

I think people tend to get a bit fuzzy headed about Commentator, but c'mon man, that's crazy talk.

They've never been in the same league, and as for the rest of your post, I really don't see similarities.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think people tend to get a bit fuzzy headed about Commentator, but c'mon man, that's crazy talk.

They've never been in the same league, and as for the rest of your post, I really don't see similarities.

I'm honestly confused.....which isn't in which one's league? I assume you mean Lava Man, as he was defeating Big Booster and Commentator was defeating future HOY Saint Liam and drowned Student Council who won last year's Pacific Classic.

Now, I don't think that's totally fair, as on his homecourt, Lava Man was vary good. But on raw talent? It's probably not that close.

[miraja2]

I guess one of the similarities might be that each is/was very tough when they ran under certain conditions. Lava Man's limitations were geographical, while Commentator's are pace-based, but they both needed things a certain way to do much. Although I'm not sure that fact really distinguishes those two from 99% of the horses running.

For the most part, I don't think the two really compare very well. I have been far more impressed with Commentator's best then I ever was with Lava Man's best. I think Commentator is one of the more talented horses we have seen in recent years, while I would not put Lava Man on that list. On the other hand, Commentator's biggest weakness is that he lacks the ability to ever put together a truly impressive overall season (like Lava Man did in '06) because of all of his various physical problems. They are two very different animals.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Lava Man has Commentator 7-to-2 in Grade 1 wins. He's won Gr 1's on dirt, turf, and synthetic. He's also got a big figure (120 Beyer) that came without a dreamy trip when he won the Hollywood Gold Cup by 9 lengths with next out Pacific Classic and Jockey Club Gold Cup winner Borrego checking in 2nd.

But he's also a horse who stuggled mightily as a claimer prior to Doug O' Neill claiming him - and with O'Neill - he failed in a miserable way all five times he ran outside of California.

Commentator currently has lost 6 of his last 8 Graded Stake attempts - is markedly less effective when pressured early - and needs a bunch of time between starts.

Commentator is obviously in the same leauge as Lava Man. He doesn't match up as well on accomplishments though ... but he remains sharp and carefully managed while LM is retired.

Both of them did the bulk of their damage at a time when the quality of racing was at it's lowest. I'd say they are pretty even - and both a little overrated.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm honestly confused.....which isn't in which one's league? I assume you mean Lava Man, as he was defeating Big Booster and Commentator was defeating future HOY Saint Liam and drowned Student Council who won last year's Pacific Classic.

Now, I don't think that's totally fair, as on his homecourt, Lava Man was vary good. But on raw talent? It's probably not that close.

That's pretty much how I meant it. However, I don't really see that horse being anything special, homecourt or not (lava man). He was lucky enough to be running in an era of historically bad older horses. If he'd have been running against horses from the mid 90s, he'd probably have been an allowance horse at best.