Bailout bill fails

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[CSC]

I hate to say it as I am a Investor, but someone had to pay for the outlandish policies by some of these sub prime lending companies. Is it possible to feel bad but good at the same time...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Thanks. Makes some real sense.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

I agree with about 90% of this, which is about 85% more than most of the things for me in this area of the forum.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

yeah, what he said.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GPK

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?

i know you asked wiphan...but i would say imo, no. problem is, there aren't enough sound institutions left to buy the unsound. the feds feel that left alone, this problem will only snowball, costing us more in the long run then a taxpayer funded bailout would cost us now.

[Mortimer]

Steven H. Crist.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Steven H. Crist.

Okay Morty I know I'll regret this but as I have said repeatedly you are the smartest guy who types here by far....what did Steven H. Crist mean?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Okay Morty I know I'll regret this but as I have said repeatedly you are the smartest guy who types here by far....what did Steven H. Crist mean?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Steven H. Crist.

Uh well....it's an expression of shock. I won't use the name most do as I recall my Catholic upbringing and what would happen to me should I use that name.


I'm just sick of all the expert opinion...that's all.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by GPK

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?

I personally hate the fact that the government has stepped in and done what they have already done, however with that said there was no other choice. Recently with the government taking over AIG, Fannie, Freddie, etc. this is the LARGEST expansion of government ever! There is no other choice and the markets are collapsing so as much as I don't like it, there was no other choice. I am all for less government and this goes against that to the highest degree. The fact of the matter is there should have been more regulation on the CDO's, MBS, etc.

[Mortimer]

^^^^ That vewy bad man is a donkey.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

And that is the 3 trillion dollar question: How in God's name are they going to price these assets?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And that is the 3 trillion dollar question: How in God's name are they going to price these assets?

I don't know, and I am glad I am not the one making that decision. Do you know if that is what the major arguement is about right now?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Fundamentally "toxic mortages" are toast and some feel why do taxpayers have to bail out a credit mess they had nothing to do with to begin with. These things should have been foreseen by the Fed long before it got to this point, I agree with alot of what you said but fundamentally I disagree with a Bailout.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Okay I am going to put this out there hoping that it helps communicate the dire circumstances we are currently entering and what it means for the future for everybody.

I grew up the definition of middle class having a roof over my head, that my father rented literally week to week, never had to worry about whether I had clothes or food as my father did what he had to do to raise 3 sons and a daughter but there were no excesses of any kind.

I was fortunate enough to go to a state univ for a very afforable education, did decently academically and subsequently during the Regan years borrowed 250K, most of it with 18% HEAL money to finanace my medical education which I have subsequently paid back over 15 years.

With a credit rating in the mid to upper 600's I recently sold my home and applied for a mortgage offering 30% down payment on a home half the size of the place I sold. We had our application frozen or "denied at this time" due to the current circumstances. Now my job has changed substantially in the last 6 months and I have educational loans for my sons and about 10% of what I made last year in other debts but if I can't get an immediate loan at the best rates then what's going to happen to the people who are not as fortunate as I am when they want to but a home or finance a car while they have decent jobs and credit scores........this bill was not the answer but if you don't believe that we are about to enter one of the darkess financial times of our lifetime ask your friends who are trying to buy anything of substance how it is going for them.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Why are we giving these same crooks money to loan again? These CEO's with 50 and 100 million bucks made off bad loans(Paulson' s friends) need to be punished. I don't see a thing about doing that. The people crying loudest are doing it because their stocks are going down. Don't gamble on stocks anymore, or don't do it without being willing to take losses for gambling with your money. Your retirement in the stock market? Well, you fkd up. Don't look for innocent people to bail you out. You fkd up. You say you hate Socialism, but you are all putting your hand out for it. Meanwhile, your against the common person getting healthcare. YOU WANT SOCIALISM, BUT ONLY SOMETIME. FCK OFF.