Bailout bill fails

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I DON'T HAVE DEBT. What will happen? Americans will have to start to live with discipline. Americans need to try it. THIS BILL FAILED, because we are not for pissing away the value of our savings just to socialize the losses of crooks, and people that gambled in the stock market. Be responsible next time. We don't want to socialize these losses. That's just the way it is. If you can't get new loans, then don't buy it. Revolutionary!! We need to correct the way Americans act with money. Start.

you don't pay a car note, own a house with a mortgage? i have very little debt myself, but i have some all the same. you can make debt work for you-i mean, who can save the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to buy a house so as to avoid a mortgage?
and go tell all the autoworkers they're all out of work, as no one can borrow. yeah, that'll make their day.
and everyone who has a 401k is in the stock market to some degree.

Originally Posted by Danzig

you don't pay a car note, own a house with a mortgage? i have very little debt myself, but i have some all the same. you can make debt work for you-i mean, who can save the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to buy a house so as to avoid a mortgage?
and go tell all the autoworkers they're all out of work, as no one can borrow. yeah, that'll make their day.
and everyone who has a 401k is in the stock market to some degree.

Oh pffft. It's not like all the people who will lose their jobs because of this won't be able to find a new job.

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

Sad to say but true.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Sad to say but true.

And let me really offend some people now.

The Greatest Generation and their children are to blame. They let this s.hit happen because they feel entitled to do whatever they please. Future generations be damned.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

And let me really offend some people now.

The Greatest Generation and their children are to blame. They let this s.hit happen because they feel entitled to do whatever they please. Future generations be damned.

This would actually be a great seperate topic. I lay the blame to the children of the greatest generation (yes, the boomers).

Why do you feel this way?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

http://www.amazon.com/Are-We-Rome-Em...2719907&sr=8-1

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

Isn't that the truth. I think that if this wasn't an election year things would be much different.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you don't pay a car note, own a house with a mortgage? i have very little debt myself, but i have some all the same. you can make debt work for you-i mean, who can save the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to buy a house so as to avoid a mortgage?
and go tell all the autoworkers they're all out of work, as no one can borrow. yeah, that'll make their day.
and everyone who has a 401k is in the stock market to some degree.

I am not against people getting loans, but they want to have the same scum (that made these bad loans) be the ones in charge of the loaning. That is an example of repeating the same mistake(which is the definition of the word "stupid.") That's the very 1st thing wrong with this plan. No accountability whatsoever. Give the same crooks more money to loan. No, miss "I want less Gov't," I am not interested in saving the stock market. This a-s-s you voted for wanted to have people putting their social security money in the stock market. He was wrong. Now he has zero crediblity on economic issues whatsoever.

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[CSC]

I hate to say it as I am a Investor, but someone had to pay for the outlandish policies by some of these sub prime lending companies. Is it possible to feel bad but good at the same time...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Thanks. Makes some real sense.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

I agree with about 90% of this, which is about 85% more than most of the things for me in this area of the forum.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

yeah, what he said.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GPK

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?

i know you asked wiphan...but i would say imo, no. problem is, there aren't enough sound institutions left to buy the unsound. the feds feel that left alone, this problem will only snowball, costing us more in the long run then a taxpayer funded bailout would cost us now.

[Mortimer]

Steven H. Crist.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Steven H. Crist.

Okay Morty I know I'll regret this but as I have said repeatedly you are the smartest guy who types here by far....what did Steven H. Crist mean?